Uncompahgre and Super Down owners...thoughts?

[ianpadron]

I'm the opposite. I won't take down anymore unless it's a desert trip. The 4 oz are well worth not having to worry about a bit of moisture buggering up my puffy. The FL is crazy warm, wind resistant, and handles perspiration and outside moisture very well. The only advantages to down are weight and compressibility.

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And the fact that down is warmer...by a lot.

The DWR treated down retains over 90% of it's insulating properties when soaked.

Most high end synthetics are in the 80s.

The stigma associated with getting down wet just doesn't apply to the new stuff!

This coming from a guy up in soggy Washington.

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[ianpadron]

Can you explain the two scenarios for which each would be used?

I had both jackets but got rid of them both. The Uncompahgre wasn't warm for me at all, and you can find similar down jackets for a lot cheaper than the SD.

Agreed 100%.

I was always cold in my FL and similar/better jackets than the superdown can be had for much cheaper from other manufacturers. Patagonia, REI, etc

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[MuleyFever]

I'm the opposite. I won't take down anymore unless it's a desert trip. The 4 oz are well worth not having to worry about a bit of moisture buggering up my puffy. The FL is crazy warm, wind resistant, and handles perspiration and outside moisture very well. The only advantages to down are weight and compressibility.

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4oz? The super down is half the weight and size of the FL jacket. And lots if people say the down is warmer to them. To many, like myself, the 2 advantages to down you list are important.

 

[tipsntails7]

And the fact that down is warmer...by a lot.

The DWR treated down retains over 90% of it's insulating properties when wet.

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No offense but that's a lie, and if you believe that you've been fooled by nonsense marketing lies, down is still down.
I've used it, it doesn't.
I love down, and I use it a lot, but PLEASE don't expect your down jacket to do this, or you could die.



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[ianpadron]

No offense but that's a lie, and if you believe that you've been fooled by marketing.
I've used it, it doesn't.
I love down, and I use it a lot, but PLEASE don't expect your down jacket to do this, or you could die.



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My down jackets HAVE done that. Got dumped on...it was fine.

There's a thread on here about a guy with his EE treated quilt getting soaked and it was fine. His buddies regular down, not so much.

Synthetics get wet. Treated down is hydrophobic, it literally repels water. Science is amazing and it really does work as advertised.

There are tons of demos on YouTube illustrating that fact. Put it in a jar, shake it up, floats right to the top...dry!

Rumor has it a KUIU rep left their demo jar of QuixDown in a box after last year's show tour and they found it this year at SHOT...it was still...dry!

It's not a lie at all, it's science, and it's pretty damn slick!

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[tipsntails7]

My down jackets HAVE done that. Got dumped on...it was fine.

There's a thread on here about a guy with his EE treated quilt getting soaked and it was fine. His buddies regular down, not so much.

Synthetics get wet. Treated down is hydrophobic, it literally repels water. Science is amazing and it really does work as advertised.

There are tons of demos on YouTube illustrating that fact. Put it in a jar, shake it up, floats right to the top...dry!

Rumor has it a KUIU rep left their demo jar of QuixDown in a box after last year's show tour and they found it this year at SHOT...it was still...dry!

It's not a lie at all, it's science, and it's pretty damn slick!

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Show me a third party study that supports any of that.

Synthetics by nature are hydrophobic, they don't require a coating to achieve that.

A lot of anecdotes and "rumor" in there.

It's a coating, you don't use a soft shell as your primary rain jacket do you? Same principle, limited exposure, sure. Extended use and moisture, it will wet out just the same.

Your right, it's science, not magic.


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[ianpadron]

Show me a third party study that supports any of that.

A lot of anecdotes and "rumor" in there.

It's a coating, you don't use a soft shell as your primary rain jacket do you? Same principle, limited exposure, sure. Extended use and moisture, it will wet out just the same.

Your right, it's science, not magic.


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deadspin-quote-carrot-aligned-w-bgr-2

Go to the link for the International Down and Feather Testing Laboratory at the bottom of the article.

Interesting anecdotal evidence in the article too. Can't think of a time I've ever been wetter than the dude testing this hydrophobic down jacket...

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[tipsntails7]

deadspin-quote-carrot-aligned-w-bgr-2

Go to the link for the International Down and Feather Testing Laboratory at the bottom of the article.

Interesting anecdotal evidence in the article too. Can't think of a time I've ever been wetter than the dude testing this hydrophobic down jacket...

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I'm going to assume you actually didn't read what you linked to, or the links at the bottom as 40%+ of dwr treated down fails within 119 minutes in their testing. That's brand new, unwashed, unworn down. DWR wears off, through washing, use, due to oils from the skin, and eventually you end up with regular down as the DWR cannot be reapplied(currently).

I love down, I'm not putting it down, but people should understand it's assets and it's limitations.

Either way I don't care what you do, just don't tell people to use a down jacket like it's a magic bullet. It's still down, the DWR doesn't change the physical properties of down, it just alters it for as long as the DWR is affective.

PS, none of what you've linked to confirms your 90% insulation retention when soaked claim.
But DWR down is MUCH better then regular down, you will get no argument from me on that, and In general I think people worry to much about down.



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[ianpadron]

I'm going to assume you actually didn't read what you linked to, or the links at the bottom as 40%+ of dwr treated down fails within 119 minutes in their testing. That's brand new, unwashed, unworn down. DWR wears off, through washing, use, due to oils from the skin, and eventually you end up with regular down as the DWR cannot be reapplied(currently).

I love down, I'm not putting it down, but people should understand it's assets and it's limitations.

Either way I don't care what you do, just don't tell people to use a down jacket like it's a magic bullet. It's still down, the DWR doesn't change the physical properties of down, it just alters it for as long as the DWR is affective.

PS, none of what you've linked to confirms your 90% insulation retention when soaked claim.




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The various brands tested (Primaloft Gold Blend, DriDown, Quix Down, etc.) all have different lifetimes and testing results. The 90% warmth retention figure is from Toray, makers of QuixDown.

Still can't think of a time I was wearing a synthetic puffy and thought "ah whatever I'll just ditch my rain gear and soak this shit".

If your insulation layers are getting wet for more than 2 hours straight...you're either hunting in Alaska/Coastal PNW, or you're not using your gear properly.

DWR has a lifetime...just like synthetic insulation. Don't quote me here, but I've seen tests somewhere on the web showing that Primaloft breaks down at some ridiculous rate everytime it is compressed.

All gear has a lifetime, and of course knowing its limitations is crucial. I stand by my assertion that hydrophobic down is the bees knees and will do everything OP needs it to do (packability, warmth, protection while glassing...in Eastern WA) better than synthetic insulation.



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[tipsntails7]

The various brands tested (Primaloft Gold Blend, DriDown, Quix Down, etc.) all have different lifetimes and testing results. The 90% warmth retention figure is from Toray, makers of QuixDown.

Still can't think of a time I was wearing a synthetic puffy and thought "ah whatever I'll just ditch my rain gear and soak this shit".

If your insulation layers are getting wet for more than 2 hours straight...you're either hunting in Alaska/Coastal PNW, or you're not using your gear properly.

DWR has a lifetime...just like synthetic insulation. Don't quote me here, but I've seen tests somewhere on the web showing that Primaloft breaks down at some ridiculous rate everytime it is compressed.

All gear has a lifetime, and of course knowing its limitations is crucial. I stand by my assertion that hydrophobic down is the bees knees and will do everything OP needs it to do (packability, warmth, protection while glassing...in Eastern WA) better than synthetic insulation.



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I'm not going to argue with anything your saying here as I agree with all of it, except for the nonsense from Toray. It's nonsense marketing speech.

Once the down cluster is actually wet it retains basically zero insulation properties. The whole point of DWR down is to keep it from getting wet so it's shedding water not absorbing water and retaining insulation properties, unlike synthetic and wool which retain insulation properties when it is actually wet.

In my experience, repeated wetting with insufficient drying time is what kills down. Sweat in your bag, it's pissing rain out so you don't get to dry it out and it either sits in your pack or in your tent, in an extremely humid environment for 7 days straight. It's rarely ever rain that does it in(for me).


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[5MilesBack]

I don't even use the treated down and have never had a problem with down going back 35+ years.

 

[Beendare]

FWIW, my favorite puffy's are an old Cabelas version with microfiber lining/hood- it was $50

or my Eddie Bauer down jacket....as they both were relatively cheap on sale...and they came in TALL.

I think the warmest puffy I've seen is the UA version.

 

[MattB]

I'm the opposite. I won't take down anymore unless it's a desert trip. The 4 oz are well worth not having to worry about a bit of moisture buggering up my puffy. The FL is crazy warm, wind resistant, and handles perspiration and outside moisture very well. The only advantages to down are weight and compressibility.

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My FL is 19 oz and my Kuiu 10 oz., not a 4 oz. difference.

The down is warmer despite being ~1/2 the weight and packing to less than 1/2 the size. To each theIir own but the difference between down and synthetic when both are used judiciously is marginal in my experience.

 

[bigharge]

If you aren't married to a camo pattern/company, look at the Arcteryx Atom. I sold my uncomp the day the atom showed up and haven't looked back. Love that jacket

 

[optimusprime]

How's the warmth on your Atom jacket? I think I am gonna go for a lighter insulator simply for what I need it for.

 

[tipsntails7]

How's the warmth on your Atom jacket? I think I am gonna go for a lighter insulator simply for what I need it for.

Less warm then the FL puffy in my experience because the side panels breath very well. Under a shell they are equally as warm.


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[robAK]

Been using my Eddie Bauer down jacket for early morning hikes here in AK. 40s with a little wind. Does fine. Got it for $67 and packs into its own pocket

 

[bigharge]

Imo the atom is warmer than the uncompahgre, and I love the hood on the arcteryx as well


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[duchntr]

Imo the atom is warmer than the uncompahgre, and I love the hood on the arcteryx as well


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Which atom are you talking about? Ar or LT? the Lt has 60g of core loft with power stretch side panels, the fl is 100gr of cocona in the body with 60 in the hood and sleeves. Now I don't have the fl puffy but have been using the ARC LT for years, and I wouldn't use it as a stand alone insulation piece, as its not really wind resistant

 

[wind gypsy]

Which atom are you talking about? Ar or LT? the Lt has 60g of core loft with power stretch side panels, the fl is 100gr of cocona in the body with 60 in the hood and sleeves. Now I don't have the fl puffy but have been using the ARC LT for years, and I wouldn't use it as a stand alone insulation piece, as its not really wind resistant

I've got the atom LT, nuclei LT, and a cerium AR from arcteryx and the uncompahgre from FL. The Atom Lt is not as warm as the uncompahgre and it's not meant to be. The Atom AR is probably comparable with nearly twice the insulation of the LT and without the powerstretch sides letting wind through and heat out.