Tuning Simmons Sharks

[wannabemountainman]

Hello all,
I’ve been shooting Thunderheads out of my PSE StingerX for the last four or five seasons and have had good luck with them. Maybe I’m just trying to fix something that isn’t broken, but I bought a pack of Simmons Treesharks last summer. I messed around with them all summer, paper tuned my bow, and tried all sorts of variables but never could get the broad heads to fly correctly past ~25yds.
My best arrow setup was a 31” (29” draw length) Black Eagle Carnivore .250 with a 50gr insert. Deer season came around so I eventually gave up on the idea of shooting a 2” wide, 190gr battle axe and hunted with my usual broad heads all season.
Fast forward to now, I’ve once again gotten the itch to figure out a heavy hitter arrow setup and herein lies the reason for my post. Does anyone on here shoot Treesharks out of a compound? If so, what’s your arrow setup? On the other hand, are these heads just not meant to be shot at such relative high velocities? Finally, are there any other heavy hitting broad heads you would recommend?
Thanks in advance!

 

[brentr9]

I was able to run them out of my 343 IBO bow @ 29.5” and 70# with a 300 spine arrow. I found that ANY form failures on my part decreased accuracy. They would fly fine on the range (I was shooting groups at 90yds) but awkward field shooting positions amplified my mistakes. I would make sure you’re bow is super tuned and then run a long helical vane or feather to help stabilize when your form fails. I also had issues getting and keeping the blades as sharp as I would like. Good luck in your testing!

 

[wannabemountainman]

I was able to run them out of my 343 IBO bow @ 29.5” and 70# with a 300 spine arrow. I found that ANY form failures on my part decreased accuracy. They would fly fine on the range (I was shooting groups at 90yds) but awkward field shooting positions amplified my mistakes. I would make sure you’re bow is super tuned and then run a long helical vane or feather to help stabilize when your form fails. I also had issues getting and keeping the blades as sharp as I would like. Good luck in your testing!

That makes a lot of sense! I probably need to put longer fletching on an arrow and see how that helps, that’s something I hadn’t tried with my .250s. I’m usually still hunting in the woods or in a tiny treestand so maybe these aren’t the best for hunting situations if form is critical.

 

[nphunter]

The slower you make it the better they will fly. Adding weight to get the speed down will help, fixed heads really start to show form and tuning flaws once you get over about 280fps. It is possible to get them to fly decent in perfect conditions but they will still amplify any issue with you on your setup. The only fixed heads I've found accurate consistently out past 70 yards shooting 315fps were 1 1/8" size two-blade or two with bleeder's heads. Heads with more surface area were not consistent enough for me to be confident with them.

This last season I added 100gr to my setup to get the speeds closer to 280fps and it is much more forgiving with fixed heads in general.

 

[brentr9]

The slower you make it the better they will fly. Adding weight to get the speed down will help, fixed heads really start to show form and tuning flaws once you get over about 280fps. It is possible to get them to fly decent in perfect conditions but they will still amplify any issue with you on your setup. The only fixed heads I've found accurate consistently out past 70 yards shooting 315fps were 1 1/8" size two-blade or two with bleeder's heads. Heads with more surface area were not consistent enough for me to be confident with them.

This last season I added 100gr to my setup to get the speeds closer to 280fps and it is much more forgiving with fixed heads in general.

I agree with what you’ve found as well. I ended up with magnus stingers (identical to your measurements).

 

[Beendare]

I dunno what your exact issue is but I do shoot a Big BH- the VPA 150gr 3 blade [among other 150's] and can give you a step by step;

First you have to make sure those arrows are assembled perfectly straight. Even the tiniest wobble causes poor arrow flight. I tested this years ago with a micrometer. I lost sight of a visual BH wobble at .003" to .004"with the naked eye. BH tipped arrows shot with the .004" and .003" had an avg group size 50% bigger at 60yds in my testing with arrows that were no more than .002"- perfectly straight matters.

Make sure you aren't under spined.

BH tune your bow. Make sure that BH's and FP's are hitting to the same POA at a longer distance for you. Some guys Bareshaft tune which can accomplish the same thing.

If you can't get it to tune its a matter of 1) the bow or 2) form issues that need to be fixed.

Those 3 things and you should be golden.

__________

 

[NYSKIER]

I dunno what your exact issue is but I do shoot a Big BH- the VPA 150gr 3 blade [among other 150's] and can give you a step by step;

First you have to make sure those arrows are assembled perfectly straight. Even the tiniest wobble causes poor arrow flight. I tested this years ago with a micrometer. I lost sight of a visual BH wobble at .003" to .004"with the naked eye. BH tipped arrows shot with the .004" and .003" had an avg group size 50% bigger at 60yds in my testing with arrows that were no more than .002"- perfectly straight matters.

Make sure you aren't under spined.

BH tune your bow. Make sure that BH's and FP's are hitting to the same POA at a longer distance for you. Some guys Bareshaft tune which can accomplish the same thing.

If you can't get it to tune its a matter of 1) the bow or 2) form issues that need to be fixed.

Those 3 things and you should be golden.

__________

I agree with everything Beendare said, just wanted to add my two cents as far as BH tuning goes. Beendare mentioned bare shaft tuning first and I find that once I'm bareshaft tuned at 20 yards 30 max I'm good to go. I feel a lot of people neglect form issues as well but they are a major factor in order to check form I'll take few days and just shoot one arrow at a time not groups to shoot the best arrow and sometimes this allows me to better diagnose what is going on

 

[wannabemountainman]

Great stuff guys! Thanks for all the input.

 

[gphil]

I shot the simmons swampsharks this summer and I couldnt get them to fly consistenly. I bare shaft tuned and broadhead tuned and couldnt get them to fly consistent. I felt like they caught any little gust of wind and flew irregular. Some days I could shoot them at 60yds and other days I couldnt get them to shoot at closer ranges. I got frustrated and went back to 100gr magnus and 75grain inserts (same weight as swamp shark) and the magnus would consistently fly with my field points as far as I could shoot. I really wanted to get the swampsharks to work I think they would work great but I dont kbow what I would do differently. I am shooting 70lb bear attack , 29inch draw , 250 spine gold time xt hunter, weighted ethics archery inserts and screw in kudu 75grain weights with 3 4inch helical vanes

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[Zac]

I believe that a higher profile vane actually stabilizes better than a long Vane. I would try a 4 fletch helical with Blazer or AAE Max Hunters. AAE also makes some jigs that allows a 6 degree helical with longer profile vanes.