Trump - shrinking bears ear and escalante

[MontanaMarine]

MontanaMarine, I would like to see a reference to those two items. Nothing i see changes the way the land was used as FS and BLM land, it only protects against future development.

Google is your friend, and we all have our personal experiences.

Here's a quick example of from the Colorado National Monument.

Only one designated camping area with fees and a host of regulations. No dispersed camping. Set up some steel to shoot and I'll bet you get a tactical response team.



Saddlehorn Campground - Colorado National Monument (U.S. National Park Service)

 

[bigdesert10]

If a former President did exceed his mandate them the onus and legal authority is on Congress to rescind. The President has no authority to rescind based on the law. I suspect this will be stopped at District Federal Court level. Whether it goes higher is uncertain.

A fair point. It will be interesting to see how things play out. What matters most to me (and I'm sure most others on here) is hunting access, opportunity and herd health. I'm sure I'm not alone on here in struggling to reconcile my desire to protect habitat, access and opportunity with my innate distrust of politicians and bureaucrats (on both sides of the isle, if I'm being honest).

 

[mtwarden]

Chavez- there’ a fellow who has hunter’s best interest at heart

 

[mtnkid85]

Google is your friend, and we all have our personal experiences.

Here's a quick example of from the Colorado National Monument.

Only one designated camping area with fees and a host of regulations. No dispersed camping. Set up some steel to shoot and I'll bet you get a tactical response team.

I really don't know anything about Colorado NM, I think I have driven through there but Ive never spent any real time there.
However, just browsing there website I see no regulations about shooting and in addition to the Saddlehorn designated camping area they also allow backcountry camping.
"Q - Do you have backcountry camping?
A - Yes, the park has backcountry camping, however a free permit must be filled out at the visitor center during regular business hours."


Saddlehorn Campground - Colorado National Monument (U.S. National Park Service)

 

[vdeal]

A fair point. It will be interesting to see how things play out. What matters most to me (and I'm sure most others on here) is hunting access, opportunity and herd health. I'm sure I'm not alone on here in struggling to reconcile my desire to protect habitat, access and opportunity with my innate distrust of politicians and bureaucrats (on both sides of the isle, if I'm being honest).

Remember that hunting laws, and wildlife management is still the responsibility of the state of Utah. From the FS Fact sheet I referenced earlier - "The monument does not change the State of Utah’s jurisdiction as it relates to fish and wildlife management."

 

[durangobrad]

Chavez- there’ a fellow who has hunter’s best interest at heart

Guys, we need to be careful with sarcasm here, it doesn't translate well in the written format, and some people believe everything they read on the internet.

Also its Chaffetz not Chavez.

 

[bigdesert10]

Remember that hunting laws, and wildlife management is still the responsibility of the state of Utah. From the FS Fact sheet I referenced earlier - "The monument does not change the State of Utah’s jurisdiction as it relates to fish and wildlife management."

Certainly, but access and habitat impact are more related to land management than wildlife management. Not to mention the instances where hunting access has been abridged on federally designated lands.

 

[TheTone]

Heres one with heavy sarcasm fully intended...Don't worry Jason Hairiston is buddies and hangs out with Trump and he totally has the average hunters best interests in mind.

 

[MontanaMarine]

I really don't know anything about Colorado NM, I think I have driven through there but Ive never spent any real time there.
However, just browsing there website I see no regulations about shooting and in addition to the Saddlehorn designated camping area they also allow backcountry camping.
"Q - Do you have backcountry camping?
A - Yes, the park has backcountry camping, however a free permit must be filled out at the visitor center during regular business hours."






Saddlehorn Campground - Colorado National Monument (U.S. National Park Service)

There's a big difference between backcountry camping, and dispersed camping. One is backpacking, the other is parking and camping wherever you find a good spot.

There is also a link to firearms regs on the site. Weapons can be carried, but not used.............it just reeks of freedom...(sarc).

 

[gdog]

Guys, we need to be careful with sarcasm here, it doesn't translate well in the written format, and some people believe everything they read on the internet.

Also its Chaffetz not Chavez.

"Chavez" with his borrowed "hunting dog"... (heavy sarcasm intended for clarification )

 

[vdeal]

There's a big difference between backcountry camping, and dispersed camping. One is backpacking, the other is parking and camping wherever you find a good spot.

There is also a link to firearms regs on the site. Weapons can be carried, but not used.............it just reeks of freedom...(sarc).

The BIG difference is that Colorado NM is a unit of the National Park Service whereas Bear's Ear and Grand Staircase are BLM and or USFS. Completely difference management strategies - it's apples and oranges.

 

[vdeal]

As I thought would be the case:

A group of Native American tribes filed suit against President Donald Trump and a host of administration officials on Monday, alleging that Trump's decision to significantly shrink Bears Ears National Monument is "in violation of the United States Constitution and the Antiquities Act of 1906."

Representatives from the Hopi, Zuni, Ute Mountain Ute, the Navajo Nation and the Ute Indian tribes accused Trump of exceeding "the limited authority delegated to his office," violating "the Antiquities Act and the separation of powers established in the Constitution" and circumventing the law by "attempting to evade that strict limitation" of his power.

Link

Environmental groups have filed a similar lawsuit on Grand Staircase-Escalante

 

[MontanaMarine]

Maybe I'm off a little, but I can tell you I visited Joshua Tree Nat'l Monument (before it became a Nat'l Park), and all you could do was walk on the trails and eat granola bars.

It was night and day difference from BLM of NF.

 

[wapitibob]

What many don't seem to grasp, is that State Trust Land is not Public Land, in ANY western state.
Your ability to access and or recreate on that land is controlled by a Land Board. They can, and do, keep the public out and charge for access. Selling the land if transferred from the Feds is long way from what should be concerning most who recreate on our National Forests and BLM lands.

 

[durangobrad]

Very good point. Here in Colorado very little state land is open to the public. Only some where parks and wildlife lease it from the state.

 

[mlevimadden]

National Park lovers should applaud Trump's monument decision | Fox News

Jason Chaffetz is to public lands what Elizabeth Warren is to 2nd amendment rights, so I hope anyone reading this thread takes that source's bias into account.

 

[vdeal]

The State Trust Land issue is interesting. I found this:

President Bill Clinton’s creation of the Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monument in 1996 ultimately led to a $50 million payment to the Permanent School Fund and a significant land exchange to protect Utah’s education endowment. Despite the amiable collaboration between Governor Michael Leavitt and Interior Secretary Bruce Babbitt, the exchange process took nearly two years to complete.

So it appears the land at Grand Staircase is indeed now public.

From this January:

The Utah School and Institutional Trust Lands Administration (SITLA) estimates the newly-declared Bears Ears National Monument captures approximately 109,000 acres of state school trust lands, which are managed by SITLA on behalf of Utah’s K-12 education system.

SITLA is currently reviewing the monument proclamation and map, and will work with its Board of Trustees, the Utah State Board of Education, and other state leaders to determine the best path forward.

It is important to note that while the proclamation acknowledges the need to exchange state school trust lands within the new monument, it offers no specific guidelines, timelines, nor federal lands as possible exchange targets.

The proclamation simply states the “Secretary of the Interior shall explore entering into a memorandum of understanding with the State that would set forth terms…for an exchange of land currently owned by the State of Utah…for land of approximately equal value managed by the BLM outside the boundary of the monument.”

Not sure if an exchange or compensation ever took place.

 

[AKMAN]

I'm obviously not from Utah, but the "Special Federal Lands" in Alaska (The orange is federal........) are my least favorite places for recreation.
View attachment 62333

While unlikely in Utah, federally directed harassment of hunters with a helicopter is not remotely in the interest of sportsmen.
(A personal experience while hunting in the "orange parts...)

Another fun example: Feds defend aiming shotgun at elderly Alaskans on Yukon River - Anchorage Daily News

 

[muddydogs]

transferring a NM to a state is improbable at best, transferring “plain Jane” BLM or USFS lands is exactly what the Representatives and Senators from the great state of Utah have proposed (many times). the NM designation would certainly slow (or even halt) those issues

If we the people ever let Utah or any state get there hands on public land the little bit of land included or removed from the NM's in question isn't going to make a bit of difference because the people have lost. It's not like all of us hunters will be able to hunt or even recreate in the existing NM's, parks or wilderness areas. Once we let just one state get there hands on 1 acre of land it will snowball into every state and all public lands.

 

[muddydogs]

What many don't seem to grasp, is that State Trust Land is not Public Land, in ANY western state.
Your ability to access and or recreate on that land is controlled by a Land Board. They can, and do, keep the public out and charge for access. Selling the land if transferred from the Feds is long way from what should be concerning most who recreate on our National Forests and BLM lands.

This depends on the state, have you looked into Arizona state trust land? From what I know of AZ trust land its open to the public and the land manager using the land has very little say in the matter.