True property lines versus existing fences

[SDHNTR]

I had a circumstance occurred last fall in Colorado and it got me thinking. I have permission to hunt a ranch that has been in the same family for three generations. The northern property boundary is known to be about 50 yards on the other side of the fence. This is supported by on X, and also some recent survey work the family has had done.

But there just hasn’t been any real reason to justify the expense of moving the fence. The neighbors to the north are friendly enough, but they lease to an outfitter and have made it abundantly clear that no trespassing will be tolerated.

So we have more water on us and elk cross that fence line pretty much daily. So I was set up on this fence line and sure enough here come a handful of cows. I was setting up against a bush looking down the fence line. As the lead cow walked up to the fence, she picked me off. But I remained motionless and eventually won the stare down. They eventually jumped over onto our side and I shot one. Everything worked out.

But it made me wonder what if I had shot that cow immediately when she picked me off and before she jumped the fence? Technically, she was standing on our land, but on the neighbor’s side of the fence.

Now I would never do this just to maintain good neighbor relations, but would I have been within my rights to shoot that cow on the other side of the fence?

I know there are old range fences all over the west that were put in place long before we had accurate property lines. There has to be some court precedent on the matter.

 

[wapitibob]

Your landowner needs to get an agreement drawn up that stipulates where the property line is and allows the neighbor shared use of the strip outside the fence. Although, it may be too late and the neighbor may try adverse possession and claim the strip as his own.

 

[Erict]

I agree that getting an agreement is best.

Here's another situation you may face. Friend in Iowa has a "shared" fence that is 5-10 yards on his side of line. His land is wooded hunting land, neighbor has cattle and pastures nearby. Neighbor leases to hunters. Someone on neighbor side clearly cinched down the perfect fence to make perfect deer crossing, right near their ladder stand. If neighbor paid for the fence, do they have right to do so?

 

[mulveymo]

Legally, the property survey trumps all. I can put a fence through the middle of my backyard but it doesn't mean my neighbors can come hang out at will.

Drag free solution would be confirming with adjacent landowner that they know the fenceline isn't the boundary to mitigate a conflict before it happens.

 

[Forestryguy]

I've dealt with this several times at a former job. In Iowa, farmers can come to an agreement for moving the fence off the line for convenience (rough bluff country). The key issue is who can prove they have paid the property tax on that land for the 10 years they have own it. This does not apply to state or federal ground, though. In Iowa, you are responsible for the right-hand side of the fence. In CO, I have access to land where the boundary is way off from the fence to the actual boundary. This was an error by the FS when they fenced and went off Map North rather than Magnetic North while laying it out. This causes an issue since on the parallel boundary, the line fence is off by the same amount, and the landowner had to move a fence, though the FS was originally in the wrong. The corners are marked by a survey, but no one wants to move the fence to the actual boundary or sign it because they don't want to deal with FS over the issue. Look at a mapping app, and you will find these issues all over the place.

 

[Rich M]

Folks will always do what benefits them.

What is worth a trip to court? I cut fence on my land for animal access but would be pissed if some dude pinched my fence and a cow got out.

At $1,200/cow what would you do?

 

[ben h]

Legally, the property survey trumps all. I can put a fence through the middle of my backyard but it doesn't mean my neighbors can come hang out at will.

Unfortunately, the survey doesn't necessarily trump all and what Wapitibob describes is a very real issue and the neighbor can claim the land if the fence has been the assumed boundary for enough time. It sounds as though the fence is being treated as the boundary. It took me about 2.5 years of legal BS resolving a similar land dispute with a neighbor that did not accept our survey (or their own) and insisted the fence was the boundary. I didn't "win" either and ended up settling by giving them a smaller portion than they claimed.

 

[Coveyleader]

It’s common that fences can be off. I find this mostly happens where the terrain gets rough and the fence crews decide to put the fence in where they can. If you know for a fact the fence is off, it’s not an issue shoot, other than you better make sure the neighbor will allow you to access their property if the elk makes it there. That would be a “what if for me”

 

[LongWayAround]

I don't think fifty yards for a short distance is worth a fight. I would also say it depends on what is in that space.

It also depends on the language used to describe the boundary legally and whether the property corners are actually monumented. Also, in land surveying there is such a thing as "lines of occupation" i.e: the fenceline.

Two surveyors could very likely come to different conclusions and what your friend reads to be a surveyor agreeing with them may be vague language that they choose to interpret favorably.

 

[Bubblehide]

Volunteer to move the fence. In your case, the only thing that matters is the actual property line, as long as you can prove where it actually is, i.e., the/a survey.

Unless the other landowner has give the outfitter authority, the outfitter would have no authority to enforce property lines. Lastly, what would happen if an outfitters client shot and killed an animal on that area of the property you hunt? Has the outfitter been notified (documented) of the official boundary?

 

[WVelkhunter]

Folks will always do what benefits them.

What is worth a trip to court? I cut fence on my land for animal access but would be pissed if some dude pinched my fence and a cow got out.

At $1,200/cow what would you do?

You haven't bought any cows recently!!!

 

[Skerhunter]

If it ran back onto the neighbors to die that would be a grey area that might be hard to defend. Dead in the fence line with knowledge of the survery markers I doubt a GW would push it much.

Where I grew up everyone hunted/farmed/ranched based on the fences and river/creek channels. That county didn’t have gis mapping available until ~10 years ago. You wouldn’t believe how far off the property lines were! Almost 40 acres that we had been farming/hunting wasn’t ours, even had been receiving crp payments for years on it. My buddy picked up close to 100 acres on his place that was across the river. Someone else had always farmed it!

I was impressed how well everyone handled it, no one fought over anything and just adjusted to the new lines. People even set up easements to allow access to the parcels that were now cut off to road access.

 

[Pulleye16]

Not sure what the issue is here. Property line is the property line. Like stated above, fence line means nothing.


Put some markers up where the property line ACTUALLY is and be done with it. Couple posts and markers will only cost a few buck.

Man up!

 

[K9kodi]

That dance is 50 yards inside your hunting land. Does it matter if it’s 50 yards or 500 yards. If it was 500 yards would you stop at the fence? If not, why stop with 50 yards left? That’s the actual answer, the probable one is probably the less conflicting one

 

[LongWayAround]

Not sure what the issue is here. Property line is the property line. Like stated above, fence line means nothing.


Put some markers up where the property line ACTUALLY is and be done with it. Couple posts and markers will only cost a few buck.

Man up!

It's definitely not that simple. It's also not OP's land.

 

[Rich M]

You haven't bought any cows recently!!!

The last one i was supposed to buy sold for $1,400. We still have couple hundred pounds of ground from the one before.

 

[wapitibob]

It's definitely not that simple. It's also not OP's land.

Adverse possession is a real thing and fence lines are a big part of it. I dealt with it 1st hand and luckily the other property owner knew where the boundary was and that he was encroaching. We eventually sold that property for $400,000/acre; if the neighbor had a crystal ball back then things may have been way different.

 

[K9kodi]

Here I am worried about posting gf family land and worried I might me a yard or two off haha