trijicon Accupoint weakness vs Tenmile (wire reticle vs etched)

[catorres1]

I'm searching for my next broad use hunting scope and due to @Formidilosus tests, a 4-32 NX8 or one of the Trijicons comes to mind. Very long story as short as possible, the reticles in the NX8 will not work for me. In terms of the the Trijicons, the 4-24 range seems to fit best (lots of elevation vs others). I prefer SFP due to reticle use at the bottom end in low light (I don't want to rely on illumination I have to turn on and off), and prefer MOA. Also want to keep the weight down.

So it appears the Accupoint with the MOA ranging would be just about right....except today I read that the reticles are wire, not etched like the ones on the Tenmiles. The only 4-24 Tenmile is only in mils....and the 5-25's all have too little elevation for what I want.

As one of the major selling points on Trijicon for me is the apparent durability....not sure the Accupoint can be trusted. I have not been able to turn up anything conclusive that would lead me to trust them like I do the Tenmile's due to Form's tests.

So the question is, is this distrust unwarranted? Should I proceed with confidence on the Accupoint (which I overall prefer), or compromise and move to mils (my sons and friends all shoot MOA, so that would not be the best situation)?

Obviously, my RF's spit out solutions in mils or MOA, and the reticles are setup appropriately for each. But when we are shooting together, my spotters (who do not have reticles in their spotters) are often thinking and calling in inches relative to the target sizes etc., or just 'half target low', and again, targets are in inches. So I'd really prefer to stay MOA...my 50something year old brain is happy where it is if I can help it.

So what are the thoughts on trusting the Trijicon Accupoint vs the Tenmile, particularly due to the different reticle construction (wire vs etched)?

Formidliosis and @Ryan Avery and others involved with scope testing, would most appreciate your view on this as you guys see alot of scopes of many kinds.

Thanks!

 

[Formidilosus]

I'm searching for my next broad use hunting scope and due to @Formidilosus tests, a 4-32 NX8 or one of the Trijicons comes to mind. Very long story as short as possible, the reticles in the NX8 will not work for me. In terms of the the Trijicons, the 4-24 range seems to fit best (lots of elevation vs others). I prefer SFP due to reticle use at the bottom end in low light (I don't want to rely on illumination I have to turn on and off), and prefer MOA. Also want to keep the weight down.

As one of the major selling points on Trijicon for me is the apparent durability....not sure the Accupoint can be trusted. I have not been able to turn up anything conclusive that would lead me to trust them like I do the Tenmile's due to Form's tests.

I have not done an eval on the Accupoint that you are asking about- so not much help there.

So the question is, is this distrust unwarranted? Should I proceed with confidence on the Accupoint (which I overall prefer), or compromise and move to mils (my sons and friends all shoot MOA, so that would not be the best situation)?

Mils is the answer. Mils allows you to do things that are not possible, or near impossible under stress.

Obviously, my RF's spit out solutions in mils or MOA, and the reticles are setup appropriately for each. But when we are shooting together, my spotters (who do not have reticles in their spotters) are often thinking and calling in inches relative to the target sizes etc., or just 'half target low', and again, targets are in inches. So I'd really prefer to stay MOA...

That doesn’t help you isn’t MOA at all. Getting a correction in inches, then converting to MOA while trying to follow up is a very poor way to it. In any case, you can aim “4 inches low” with a mil reticle just as easy.

So what are the thoughts on trusting the Trijicon Accupoint vs the Tenmile, particularly due to the different reticle construction (wire vs etched)?

Formidliosis and @Ryan Avery and others involved with scope testing, would most appreciate your view on this as you guys see alot of scopes of many kinds.

Thanks!

There are more differences than reticle construction- that alone doesn’t mean anything about durability.

 

[catorres1]

Thanks for the response!

Yeah, I have been practicing in my head how I would convert a call like half a 10 in plate low at 630 yards. Keep in mind, I don't compete etc....so we are not in a hurry, it's not a competition etc. So I do have time, its just us out in a field with our hunting rifles. I'm not the quickest at math, but maybe the mils move cannot be resisted. Better to have to do that than switch to a scope I am not certain of in terms of it's reliability. That said, the tenmile I am considering is not the 3-18 FFP you tested, but the 4-24 SFP. So maybe it's not a safe bet either. Seems Trijicon has a pretty stellar reputation though from what I can gather, but the 'review record' is not very robust , relatively speaking.

 

[Kyguy]

Wire reticles are plenty durable. They've only been around since the dawn of telescopic sights. LOL. Of course etched glass is more durable, but I've only personally seen one broken reticle in 30 years of shooting, and it was one of my scopes. I've personally had at least 80 rifle scopes pass through my hands over the years.

 

[BLJ]

Mils and stress? Curious about your implication. Thanks.

 

[walk2112]

I think the implication is that decimated (base 10) angular units of measure, if you learn how to 'stay in' those units in your mind for referencing, measuring with the reticle, talking drops and wind holds, etc. (don't try to convert back and forth)... are easier to use quickly and efficiently when you're either A) shitting your pants, B) all buck fevered up, and/or C) under time pressure for whatever reason... sometimes all of the above.

 

[ScreamingPotato]

In for wire reticle durability as well. I've been wanting a 3x9 Accupoint due to it being 13 oz and the wire reticle is holding me back.

 

[catorres1]

So an update after having talked to and emailed with Trijicon. Turns out not all Tenmiles are etched. The 4-24 and the 6-24 are both wire. All Accupoints are wire due to the illumination system. So for me, if I get a 4-24...it's going to be wire...mils or moa.

According to the tech I talked to, all the scopes are tested the same and the standards are the same. He says the internals, glass, adjusters etc....all the same. He claimed that they are all equally reliable and durable according to their tests, the only difference being the illumination system, and the extra glass piece put in for the etched vs the frame and wire reticle for the wire. That said, he admitted that Form's tests are more demanding than theirs.

In addition, I did hear from another of their techs via email. He told me that both the Tenmile and the Accupoints are rated for up to 300 win mag., which is not much. So I asked about using it on a 30 Nos, he said it would be fine and said that the only scopes rated for higher are the 5-50 and 4.5-30 Tenmiles, which are 50 bmg rated. I asked what their G force on their tests are, but no answer on that one. I have read it's fairly low, like 500, vs 1250 plus for NF and 1500 for Zeiss, but that was from an online source, so who knows if it's true. My guess is that they are rated based on whatever their test is, so does not mean they will go higher, they are just not tested at that level, as I have seen lots of people using their LPVO's on heavy recoilers like 375's and 458's with good reports (this includes Accupoints).

All in all, not sure what direction I'm heading in. I'll see all these manufacturers at NRA in a couple weeks, so I can maybe get a better feel. I may have to give the F1 MOAR 4-32 another look and just settle for having to turn on illumination at low powers in order to use it....but that's really not optimal from my perspective. But better that compromise than a scope that I can't trust. But still hoping to find more good info on the 4-24 triji and particularly around their wire offerings.....it is otherwise the closest thing to what I am looking for unless NF would thicken up their F2 reticles a bit.....