Treated Down in Ultra Wet Prince William Sound

[Weber]

Are you considering this bag for a single trip or are you regularly hunting around PWS? If you are regularly hunting in those conditions, then buy a synthetic. Don't just buy any synthetic, get a good one, some of my worst nights in a tent were with cheap synthetic bags.

Ended up with the KUIU 0 Dgree Down. Will try it on a wet hunt this time where we might spike out for a night or 2 a few hours from the boat. But I spend a lot of time in PWS where it is a rainforest

I plan to purchase a MH Lamina 0 as a loaner bag and a good backup for far from home super wet hunts.

Will report back on my experiences.

"the nano particles that they use on down are small enough to cross the blood-brain barrier."

Whoa, wait, what???

Oh geeze. That’s one of those factoids that I looked into ages ago when treated down first came out. I remember it being a reputable source. Let me poke around and see if I can track it down.

I still haven't found anything on this

Weber. Down is fine when the conditions are such you can keep it somewhat dry. I have used Down bags on these hunts. They work well when you have sunny days to dry them out.

The problem is when you get many days in a row of damp weather and all of your clothes and gear is wet. Your down bag gets soggy in those conditions from all the dampness in the air alone and loses its loft.

Heck on one trip with a week solid of pouring down rain and everything soaked my syn bag literally saved my bacon, I would have froze in one of my down bags.

.

Thank you! Yeah I think if I will be far from shelter or out long periods of time I will get a synthetic, for this year both my planned hunts have shelter within a few hours hike. So long as I don't drench the bag one night I should be fine. It's going to be 35 degrees and I have my puffys and rain gear overtop and can cowboy it in a mylar bag if it really came down to it.

 

[grappling_hook]

^^ sounds like a good plan.

A couple of tips.

Put your sleeping bag in a plastic bag before packing it in your backpack. Weighs almost nothing and then you have a trash bag to use for whatever. You can sit on it in your vestibule while scooting into the tent, and if you don't need it for trash when you pack up to go, you can put the sleeping bag and tent together to keep blood out of your sleep gear on the final pack-out.

Keep an extra (less expensive, bulky, etc) sleeping bag in the boat along with the spare clothes that you (should) keep in the boat anyway. Then you have two camp options and back-ups, and works great if you want the option of an evening pack-out where it would be too dark to bust brush back to alpine until morning. Most of my hunting is literal sea-to-summit and this is what works for me.

 

[Weber]

Put your sleeping bag in a plastic bag before packing it in your backpack. Weighs almost nothing and then you have a trash bag to use for whatever. You can sit on it in your vestibule while scooting into the tent, and if you don't need it for trash when you pack up to go, you can put the sleeping bag and tent together to keep blood out of your sleep gear on the final pack-out.

Got a Sea-to-Summit dry bag I used last time I went out with good luck, pretty light. Interesting idea for the vestible dry floor.

Keep an extra (less expensive, bulky, etc) sleeping bag in the boat along with the spare clothes that you (should) keep in the boat anyway. Then you have two camp options and back-ups, and works great if you want the option of an evening pack-out where it would be too dark to bust brush back to alpine until morning. Most of my hunting is literal sea-to-summit and this is what works for me.

Same, do a lot of park the boat and hike in. This is where I think an extra synthetic bag would be super handy. If first night I get soaked or its just impossible to get dry I can hike back and lose a day, but have a dry bag. My money is on Down being fine, but until I prove that to myself I'll sleep better knowing I have to survive a shitty night with a backup at hand.


Before anyone skewers me for the "survive a night", I have a PLB and SPOT X to pop smoke if I was going to literally die of hypothermia.

Thanks for the tips @grappling_hook I'll take any you got!

 

[Fins_N_Tines]

What Weber said……and relative humidity…..rh will rob even treated down of insulating power. I love down, but if I’m heading for a damp area I leave it at home and go synthetic.

Look at it like this: you can take treated down and think to yourself “ I can maybe/probably make it work”….or you can take synthetic and think “this -will- work”.

Edited to add: the nano particles that they use on down are small enough to cross the blood-brain barrier. Very, very few things are small enough to do that, and there are zero studies (at least that I know of) on the effect of said particles on cognitive processes. Everyone does their own calculus on that, but personally, I use pure down.

I have gone back and forth. I am currently using pure down in a Feather Friends bag. In real field conditions I do not see a difference between treated down and non-treated down. Again, this is using in Sierras and rockies where there is some condesnation and some rain storms, but in general a dry climate.

 

[Weber]

I'm headed on a trip soon and will report back on bag performance, I can't think of a wetter environment than where I am going. All 3 of my hunting partners are bringing various synthetic bags like the MH Lamina so it'll be a decent comparison.

 

[Fins_N_Tines]

I'm headed on a trip soon and will report back on bag performance, I can't think of a wetter environment than where I am going. All 3 of my hunting partners are bringing various synthetic bags like the MH Lamina so it'll be a decent comparison.

I think you will be glad you went with Down.

 

[grappling_hook]

Guessing blacktail since we’re starting up the rut?
Anyway, good luck!

 

[Beendare]

Why not get a weatherproof tent, problem solved.

delete

 

[AKDoc]

Lots of excellent points made in this thread from many experienced people...

I'll simply add that switching over to a down bag ten years ago was a really big step for me. I had always gone synthetic for the valid reasons listed by others. I hunt all over Alaska and spend at least a month aggregate out of every year sleeping in a tent...wet, windy and cold are often the norm...especially on coastal hunts (PWS, Kodiak, POW, etc.).

That said, I'm glad I switched over to down for many reasons. I do bring a synthetic liner on some hunts (Thermolite Reactor Extreme) just in case I need it, but so far, nope. I've gone through a couple down bags, and last year finally bought a WM Badger (Microfiber shell). It is the best bag I've ever owned. I will encourage those going to a down bag to spend the extra money and get one with 800-850 fill...the lofting properties will last much longer over the course of multiple compressions, year after year. You also MUST have a sleeping pad with a high R value or you will not do well with a down bag in a climate such as Alaska.

 

[Vandy321]

You haven't spent time there have you? Grin

The wet damp conditions sometimes are pervasive. The air is moist and heavy. Everything is damp, wet, soaked. Nothing dries out.......it just keeps getting wetter.

I too prefer a Syn bag in those conditions [an old Sierra designs] but have used my 800 fill down bag in close to those conditions on some Alaskan peninsula hunts. My down bag would lose loft and look soggy.......but still be functional as long as I could dry it out in the sun every few days or so.

I've been in on the SW Alaskan Islands bear hunting where it never stopped raining for 8 days straight...and the residents can back this up....thats not considered rare.

Sounds like you need a better down bag, or stop crawling in it wet...don't blame the weather, blame your gear. I grew up hunting the Olympic Penninsula, but thanks for the primer on rain.

 

[Doodle]

I have gone back and forth. I am currently using pure down in a Feather Friends bag. In real field conditions I do not see a difference between treated down and non-treated down. Again, this is using in Sierras and rockies where there is some condesnation and some rain storms, but in general a dry climate.

Yea I go back and forth as well. Since I’m usually in the same mountains I’m almost always taking the down bag. It’s only the pnw or particularly bad weather forecasts that cause me to grab the synthetic.

 

[SheepDogRob]

I'm headed on a trip soon and will report back on bag performance, I can't think of a wetter environment than where I am going. All 3 of my hunting partners are bringing various synthetic bags like the MH Lamina so it'll be a decent comparison.

How did the Kuiu bag work out? I’m looking at the 0° when they stock back up.

 

[Weber]

How did the Kuiu bag work out? I’m looking at the 0° when they stock back up.

Great but it got pretty minimal abuse/use in the trip, it snowed the entire time, and spent most of its time in a cabin as we found no reason to spike out (deer in general we're sparse even on other sides of the island).

The boat based bear trip I took had quite a bit of condensation (aluminum boat, everything was wet). The RH and dripping didn't hurt it at all. Nothing enough to make me say one way or the other but no issues.

I'm taking it into a Caribou hunt in August to the Kenai Mountains where I expect to come out with stronger opinions.

I can say, I was never cold

 

[Weber]

Trying to take it out this year again, wanted to report back I just took it to the kenai mountains where it blowed and rained for 5 days straight. 0 moisture problems even though we had a fair bit of condensation in the tent. Was able to dry out my damp gear and wet socks every night. So far she's doing great.

PWS this fall will be the real test if I get a chance to get out

 

[crich]

Lots of excellent points made in this thread from many experienced people...

I'll simply add that switching over to a down bag ten years ago was a really big step for me. I had always gone synthetic for the valid reasons listed by others. I hunt all over Alaska and spend at least a month aggregate out of every year sleeping in a tent...wet, windy and cold are often the norm...especially on coastal hunts (PWS, Kodiak, POW, etc.).

That said, I'm glad I switched over to down for many reasons. I do bring a synthetic liner on some hunts (Thermolite Reactor Extreme) just in case I need it, but so far, nope. I've gone through a couple down bags, and last year finally bought a WM Badger (Microfiber shell). It is the best bag I've ever owned. I will encourage those going to a down bag to spend the extra money and get one with 800-850 fill...the lofting properties will last much longer over the course of multiple compressions, year after year. You also MUST have a sleeping pad with a high R value or you will not do well with a down bag in a climate such as Alaska.

Doc how does the WM bag do pulling moisture out of your clothes? Occasionally from brush busting my chugach pants leak through and I end up crawling into my bag wet to dry out. Ive been eyeballing a kodiak mf for a while but havent pulled the trigger. Itd be nice to get my hands on one before I drop the coin.

 

[kwackkillncrew]

I got a kodiak this year and taking it to kodiak late October. If your around the anchirage area amh carried a few wm bags including the kodiak. One thing is for sure, its roomy and lofty!

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

 

[AKDoc]

Doc how does the WM bag do pulling moisture out of your clothes? Occasionally from brush busting my chugach pants leak through and I end up crawling into my bag wet to dry out. Ive been eyeballing a kodiak mf for a while but havent pulled the trigger. Itd be nice to get my hands on one before I drop the coin.

I've never put wet clothing inside my down bag to dry overnite while I sleep. Maybe others have done that with a down bag, but I'm extra cautious, given I'm typically relying on that bag to make it through many nites before heading home and it likely is raining every day in the field!

I assume you're talking about damp base layers (long johns?). If so, then yes. I've worn damp base layers and damp socks for the nite, and they are dry in the morning without any noticeable impact on the bag's down.

Not sure where you are...says "living in AK". If you're near Anchorage, drop by Barney's...they have WM bags in the store that you can examine, get inside, and purchase or order directly through them...and they give a Veteran's discount (I got mine through them).

 

[Formidilosus]

Doc how does the WM bag do pulling moisture out of your clothes? Occasionally from brush busting my chugach pants leak through and I end up crawling into my bag wet to dry out. Ive been eyeballing a kodiak mf for a while but havent pulled the trigger. Itd be nice to get my hands on one before I drop the coin.

Have not done so with a WM, however quite a few different people, multiple times with the SG bags.

 

[crich]

I've never put wet clothing inside my down bag to dry overnite while I sleep. Maybe others have done that with a down bag, but I'm extra cautious, given I'm typically relying on that bag to make it through many nites before heading home and it likely is raining every day in the field!

I assume you're talking about damp base layers (long johns?). If so, then yes. I've worn damp base layers and damp socks for the nite, and they are dry in the morning without any noticeable impact on the bag's down.

Not sure where you are...says "living in AK". If you're near Anchorage, drop by Barney's...they have WM bags in the store that you can examine, get inside, and purchase or order directly through them...and they give a Veteran's discount (I got mine through them).

Yes just referring to damp pants or thermals. If my pant cuffs are wet or knees are damp I usually just hop in my bag and dry out pretty well without leaving the bag feeling damp. Im stationed at JBER so ill give kevin a call at Barneys. Theres another mountaineering place in town that carries them but theyve been out of stock.

Have not done so with a WM, however quite a few different people, multiple times with the SG bags.

Ive seen those videos and the chilcoot impressed me in that regard. WM claims the quality of their down having the natural oils negates the need for a treatment. Im just curious how their bags will perform if needed for an emergency. I had my water bladder in my sleeping bag one night when the low was about 14 and it leaked 3L of water all over me. I had an under rated bag so I slept with all my layers on which were now soaked. My bag at the time was very low quality and held all the moisture inside and on me. Not that Ill ever let that happen again but I like to think about worst case scenarios when it comes to a bag being a piece of survival equipment.

 

[Ungainly]

I've heard that treated down can start to clump and you end up in the same boat losing loft. In a real wet environment like that, I'd go down in a water resistant bivy.