Training for Rope-Under-the Tail

[robby denning]

Hey guys, been working with a newer horse the last couple years and although he showed no problem with it last year, he started showing a sensitivity to the rope under his tail when leading a horse.

Last week on a deer hunt, he almost went into a full buck, when it happened. Luckily he didn’t catch me off guard and I held the reins and kept his head, but then he went from bucking to backing up about 15 yards, but he finally calmed down.

As soon as I got home and had some time I started working on him again.

I made a YouTube Short, that gives you a visual below. Open to any other tips or methods you guys have used too. I’ve had two or three horses over the years that had a problem with this, and this method has always seemed to work.

If you decide to use it, be sure and read my description on YouTube,

Training for the dreaded Rope-Under-the-Tail.

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[missjordan]

I would double check that the horse is truly comfortable with the rope and there aren’t any holes elsewhere. My bet is there probably is

Few things to try

-Pat Puckett has a few great YouTube videos on roping a horses hind feet when the horse is tied. But you could start with a lunge line and just tossing it all over the horse. Head, rump, underneath.

Next i like to take a lunge whip with a long tail on the end and just stick it under their tail and see how they respond. First at a standstill then do it while they walk. Lot of times horses are ok when they “freeze” but in motion they loose their cookies again. So it’s smart to work on this both at a stand still and in motion.

I also like to take the lunge line and toss it over them in motion too. Can do the same with a lunge whip with a tail.

Ken Mcnabb has a YouTube video called “helping your horse work through fear” and you can kill two birds with one stone if you want with this similar exercise. Teaching the horse to think about softening around the “inside leg” on the ground and take the lunge line and toss it over their back. Or the lunge whip and stick it under the tail. Or crack the whip beside you. This is also a good preliminary exercise for teaching the one rein stop too so instead of the the horse panicking and backing 15 yards they seek the circle instead


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[khart_6882]

Maybe it’s just me but I always put the loop of a lariat around the saddle horn and up under their tail, while I hold the coils and send them round and round in the round pen. I can tighten it a bit by tugging on the coils and eventually they’ll learn to relax their tail so the rope falls down. And who says all team ropers are dummy’s!


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[robby denning]

I would double check that the horse is truly comfortable with the rope and there aren’t any holes elsewhere. My bet is there probably is

Few things to try

-Pat Puckett has a few great YouTube videos on roping a horses hind feet when the horse is tied. But you could start with a lunge line and just tossing it all over the horse. Head, rump, underneath.

Next i like to take a lunge whip with a long tail on the end and just stick it under their tail and see how they respond. First at a standstill then do it while they walk. Lot of times horses are ok when they “freeze” but in motion they loose their cookies again. So it’s smart to work on this both at a stand still and in motion.

I also like to take the lunge line and toss it over them in motion too. Can do the same with a lunge whip with a tail.

Ken Mcnabb has a YouTube video called “helping your horse work through fear” and you can kill two birds with one stone if you want with this similar exercise. Teaching the horse to think about softening around the “inside leg” on the ground and take the lunge line and toss it over their back. Or the lunge whip and stick it under the tail. Or crack the whip beside you. This is also a good preliminary exercise for teaching the one rein stop too so instead of the the horse panicking and backing 15 yards they seek the circle instead


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Hey, thanks for the input!

I just went over and subscribed to Puckett and Mcnabb.

What ddi you mean "...horse is comfortable with the rope...?"

the only issue he's shown with ropes has been under the tail. Are you seeing something in the video I didn't?

 

[robby denning]

Maybe it’s just me but I always put the loop of a lariat around the saddle horn and up under their tail, while I hold the coils and send them round and round in the round pen. I can tighten it a bit by tugging on the coils and eventually they’ll learn to relax their tail so the rope falls down. And who says all team ropers are dummy’s!


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oh ya, never thought of doing it with the saddle on. good advice and I'll try that.

I've noticed I can do what I show in the video bare back then I introduce a saddle and it's one more thing to think about.

I've been fortunate with the 2-3 horses over the decades that hated the rope under their tails. Just a few sessions like I show in the video has fixed them all but I posted up cause I wanna hear from you guys too.
Thank yuu

 

[missjordan]

Hey, thanks for the input!

I just went over and subscribed to Puckett and Mcnabb.

What ddi you mean "...horse is comfortable with the rope...?"

the only issue he's shown with ropes has been under the tail. Are you seeing something in the video I didn't?

I didn’t watch the video when i responded. Here is what i see now

I dont think having the makeshift crouper tied under the hoses tail and ran up onto the halter is very smart and here is why. Stock horses get the best engagement in their muscles (their core, back, hamstrings) by being “long and low” you hear that term a lot with reining/dressage riders but also with other disciplines as well. So when your horse goes to lower his neck seeking that engagement, he’s going to feel instant pressure at the tail and snap his head back up. And ultimately will stop seeking that engagement. Plus he will learn to snap his head up when he gets in a pickle to avoid your contact instead of staying engaged. Ideally what this will look like is his neck will be level with his withers. And his poll will be nose slightly out or vertical but never behind. If they tip their nose “behind the vertical” they’ll be in hyperflexion which isn’t good either. Being in frame feels natural to horses but they need to be taught a bit to stay there. Once they figure it out they will like staying there and it’ll help your hill work and going thru downfall or bumpy ground where they need to pay attention where there feet are. You’ll want to encourage that not discourage that.

Similar to when a human goes to do a deadlift you get into proper form first before lifting the bar. But if you arch your back too much your hyper flexed. It’s safer to be a little bit more rounded than too arched. Hope that makes sense, I’m not a weight lifter but it’s about the best i can explain it.


All of that might be more of an explanation than what you were looking for but I’m nerdy about horses.

Next, What is better tool to do instead of tying the crouper thing to the halter is use your western saddle or even a surcingle and like Khart suggested. Use the saddle horn and a rope and run it under the tail. That way the pressure he feels at the tail isn’t dependent on his head set. And you get to control how much pressure the horse feels at any given time. Kharts suggestion is excellent

What i also see is that he’s anxious in general, which is understandable because he’s learning a new skill. But he’s jumpy with the flag a bit which will get better with time. Sack him out with that, hell run it under his tail too. All really good things to try.

If you have a leather crouper you could start integrating it into your riding and groundwork too

Hope this helps


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[robby denning]

I didn’t watch the video when i responded. Here is what i see now

I dont think having the makeshift crouper tied under the hoses tail and ran up onto the halter is very smart and here is why. Stock horses get the best engagement in their muscles (their core, back, hamstrings) by being “long and low” you hear that term a lot with reining/dressage riders but also with other disciplines as well. So when your horse goes to lower his neck seeking that engagement, he’s going to feel instant pressure at the tail and snap his head back up. And ultimately will stop seeking that engagement. Plus he will learn to snap his head up when he gets in a pickle to avoid your contact instead of staying engaged. Ideally what this will look like is his neck will be level with his withers. And his poll will be nose slightly out or vertical but never behind. If they tip their nose “behind the vertical” they’ll be in hyperflexion which isn’t good either. Being in frame feels natural to horses but they need to be taught a bit to stay there. Once they figure it out they will like staying there and it’ll help your hill work and going thru downfall or bumpy ground where they need to pay attention where there feet are. You’ll want to encourage that not discourage that.

Similar to when a human goes to do a deadlift you get into proper form first before lifting the bar. But if you arch your back too much your hyper flexed. It’s safer to be a little bit more rounded than too arched. Hope that makes sense, I’m not a weight lifter but it’s about the best i can explain it.


All of that might be more of an explanation than what you were looking for but I’m nerdy about horses.

Next, What is better tool to do instead of tying the crouper thing to the halter is use your western saddle or even a surcingle and like Khart suggested. Use the saddle horn and a rope and run it under the tail. That way the pressure he feels at the tail isn’t dependent on his head set. And you get to control how much pressure the horse feels at any given time. Kharts suggestion is excellent

What i also see is that he’s anxious in general, which is understandable because he’s learning a new skill. But he’s jumpy with the flag a bit which will get better with time. Sack him out with that, hell run it under his tail too. All really good things to try.

If you have a leather crouper you could start integrating it into your riding and groundwork too

Hope this helps


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Makes sense when you mention how the saddle will remove the head height issue. and that bag on the end of the whip is what I've been bagging him out with, for really about a year although I let up for a while and then he got quirky again (threw me on a hunt in late September) so I went back to it and he's taking it well again.

Sometims they just seem to go backwards (he's 5 now) but he's getting back to where he was in September before the issues started showing up.

I have not put the bag under his tail, but will. And I do have a crouper I found at a trailhead but I don't know how to use it. Any advice? Thank you for chiming in this.

 

[missjordan]

Makes sense when you mention how the saddle will remove the head height issue. and that bag on the end of the whip is what I've been bagging him out with, for really about a year although I let up for a while and then he got quirky again (threw me on a hunt in late September) so I went back to it and he's taking it well again.

Sometims they just seem to go backwards (he's 5 now) but he's getting back to where he was in September before the issues started showing up.

I have not put the bag under his tail, but will. And I do have a crouper I found at a trailhead but I don't know how to use it. Any advice? Thank you for chiming in this.

Riding and training horses isn’t linear and that’s pretty typical. You will always have to revisit things like sacking them out on occasion. And if you don’t ride them for long periods of time err on the side of caution and just assume there not broke until proven otherwise.

Like on the other post from the gentlemen that’s working with his horses start implementing more training rides both in and out of the arena. All those things mentioned over there are so good for horses but the most important thing is consistency. Working them 4-5 days a week and keeping expectations. Ultimately the goal with any horse over time is to give them enough tools that they don’t react and stay thinking 80-90% of the time. And that the horse feels comfortable when they’re unsure that they rely on you to direct them. That’s the best feeling in the world. Miles and wet saddle blankets are great but so is giving the horse the proper tools to succeed also. Literally every time a person works a horse your either training or untraining. There is no grey area, horses don’t think like that. And you always work the horse you have presently so if he’s loosing his cookies over the tree stump he’s seen 100 times prior, then you work around the tree stump and don’t take it personal. And do a lot of work in the spring and summer so you don’t have to school the horse trying to beat all the other hunters to the top of the mountain.

For the crouper you’ll have to send a picture of what it looks like. Depending on how the leather comes off the crouper it might be useless to you. So I just need to see what it looks like to direct you how to best use it. It needs to be a split leather crouper that has two straps come off it to be useful on a western saddle since western saddles don’t come with crouper rings usually. Hopefully that is what you got it


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[robby denning]

Riding and training horses isn’t linear and that’s pretty typical. You will always have to revisit things like sacking them out on occasion. And if you don’t ride them for long periods of time err on the side of caution and just assume there not broke until proven otherwise.

Like on the other post from the gentlemen that’s working with his horses start implementing more training rides both in and out of the arena. All those things mentioned over there are so good for horses but the most important thing is consistency. Working them 4-5 days a week and keeping expectations. Ultimately the goal with any horse over time is to give them enough tools that they don’t react and stay thinking 80-90% of the time. And that the horse feels comfortable when they’re unsure that they rely on you to direct them. That’s the best feeling in the world. Miles and wet saddle blankets are great but so is giving the horse the proper tools to succeed also. Literally every time a person works a horse your either training or untraining. There is no grey area, horses don’t think like that. And you always work the horse you have presently so if he’s loosing his cookies over the tree stump he’s seen 100 times prior, then you work around the tree stump and don’t take it personal. And do a lot of work in the spring and summer so you don’t have to school the horse trying to beat all the other hunters to the top of the mountain.

For the crouper you’ll have to send a picture of what it looks like. Depending on how the leather comes off the crouper it might be useless to you. So I just need to see what it looks like to direct you how to best use it. It needs to be a split leather crouper that has two straps come off it to be useful on a western saddle since western saddles don’t come with crouper rings usually. Hopefully that is what you got it


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excellent,

I'll get you a pic of the crouper

thanks!

 

[Pony Soldier]

I have britchen on all of my saddles. I feel it desensitives the back half of my ponies. The cruper doesn't help me with packing or pack saddles.
They tend to get irritated with a rope but don't blow up.