Traditional Muzzleloader Shooters timid?

[Mtndawger]

The way it could affect someone is for more people to start hunting with multiple weapons because inlines are more available. That could lead to more harvest and less opportunity for the other weapon types. That's especially true if you don't have to choose "one" weapon for the year.

Also, if more people are out during muzzleloader maybe more shoot that great buck someone was wanting to shoot during the firearms season.

But, there is nothing to prevent you from using a muzzleloader during firearm season, so it would work both ways. Why do you need to hunt during muzzleloader season or have a special season?

That being said, I don't care what you use as long as it's legal.

I can't prove it but it's my belief that MZ seasons were originally intended to provide an opportunity for hunters to use primitive weapons without having to compete with rifles and crowds. There is no question an inline is an easier entry point compared to traditional MZ. That has led to more hunters during MZ seasons, also no question. Whether that affects overall harvest numbers of animals would be a deep dive in harvest stats over time. Many things have changed since then and the primitive weapons aspect may not be true anymore. In Colorado at least, Its also probably true that much of the appeal of hunting with a MZ is the chance to hunt the rut for elk. Or the weather at that time of year. Hunting third and fourth season from a camp can be pretty burly experience.

 

[HighUintas]

Well if there's no difference between a northwest style inline and a sidelock for range effectiveness, why such a push back against limiting it to a sidelock?

 

[BRTreedogs]

Well if there's no difference between a northwest style inline and a sidelock for range effectiveness, why such a push back against limiting it to a sidelock?

Because I already have one money bags.

You gonna send me the money to buy a side lock?

 

[Bluefish]

The way it could affect someone is for more people to start hunting with multiple weapons because inlines are more available. That could lead to more harvest and less opportunity for the other weapon types. That's especially true if you don't have to choose "one" weapon for the year.

Also, if more people are out during muzzleloader maybe more shoot that great buck someone was wanting to shoot during the firearms season.

But, there is nothing to prevent you from using a muzzleloader during firearm season, so it would work both ways. Why do you need to hunt during muzzleloader season or have a special season?

That being said, I don't care what you use as long as it's legal.

Iowa does limit the number of muzzle loader tags. It also means you can’t hunt gun seasons if you hunt ML. This year the ML season did not sell out. I don’t hunt early ml as none of the guys I hunt with hunt that season. I may next year as gun season has been tough, deer have gone almost exclusively nocturnal for gun seasons.

 

[HighUintas]

Because I already have one money bags.

You gonna send me the money to buy a side lock?

You'd probably make money selling that and buying a used TC Hawken. They go for $300-450.

I figured that' was the reason, but just curious.

 

[BRTreedogs]

Yes, I'm referring to states that allow 209, scopes, etc during the regular ML season

What western states are still allowing this?

 

[missjordan]

Personally i like the idea of the inlines with the open ignition systems. And wish that there would be more consistent regulations with inlines across states. The ML laws are so ambiguous it’s actually insane when you compare it to archery or rifle regulations which are extremely consistent across all states for the most part.

I love idahos regulations on ML except for the .45 for deer sized game and .50cal for large game. Bullet weight really should be the determining factor not caliber.

Montana where i hunt and is my residency state. I hate the law where it’s basically traditional ML only. I really wish they’d allow the open ignition on inlines. And do like the fact that hunter’s can use .45 cal on any sized game.

I’d love to find a 45 cal percussion ML that fits into Montana’s rules that doesn’t cost an arm and a leg but they just don’t really exist.


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[HighUintas]

What western states are still allowing this?

I'm not sure what all the exact regs are now since they've been changing and there's ML only seasons vs restricted firearms seasons. But I think Arizona and Colorado allow 209 ignition.


Regardless of that, I think the people making the rules need to learn a bit more about the guns. In Utah there's the below restriction. However.... It is 100% historically correct to use a "paper cartridge" for quick reloading of a muzzleloader... Which is a paper wrap containing the powder and ball. Tear off the end, pour the powder, then jam the whole thing down. The paper acts as a patch for the ball. This is even for flintlocks! The British used paper cartridges to quickly reload their Brown Bess muskets.

 

[ElDiablito]

This conversation is starting to remind me more and more of how gun-controllers try to define "assault weapons" - unable to articulate basic definitions (assault, "inline", etc), but looking for features to ban. Scary black guns qualify, especially if they have a bayonet lug, but not a wooden-stocked Ruger ranch rifle. Scary bolt-action muzzleloaders with fancy ignition systems? Fancy globe sights? Carbon fiber assault stocks?

Call the Clintons.

This is the analogy that has been coming to my mind reading many of the posts.

 

[ElDiablito]

What western states are still allowing this?

Utah still allows 209s and (1x) scopes during the muzzy season. AZ and WY also allow scopes and 209s.

 

[HighUintas]

Utah still allows 209s and (1x) scopes during the muzzy season. AZ and WY also allow scopes and 209s.

+ California, Nevada, Washington. And many of them also allow sabots

 

[HighUintas]

Legal uses of the most popular muzzleloading components by state for muzzleloader only seasons​

Muzzleloading component	Pelletized powders
States where legal	Arizona, California, Iowa, Kansas, Nebraska, Nevada, New Mexico*, Utah, Washington, Wyoming
States where illegal	Colorado, Idaho, Montana, New Mexico*, Oregon
Muzzleloading component	Scopes (magnified)
States where legal	Arizona, Iowa, Kansas, Nebraska, Wyoming
States where illegal	California, Colorado, Idaho, Montana, Nevada, New Mexico, Oregon, Utah, Washington
Muzzleloading component	209 primers
States where legal	Arizona, California, Colorado, Iowa, Kansas, Nebraska, Nevada, New Mexico*, Utah, Washington, Wyoming
States where illegal	Idaho, Montana, New Mexico*, Oregon
Muzzleloading component	Enclosed ignition
States where legal	Arizona, California, Colorado, Iowa, Kansas, Nebraska, Montana, Nevada, New Mexico, Utah, Washington, Wyoming
States where illegal	Idaho, Montana, Oregon
Muzzleloading component	Sabots
States where legal	Arizona, California**, Iowa, Kansas, Nebraska, Nevada, New Mexico*, Utah, Washington, Wyoming
States where illegal	Colorado, Idaho, Montana, New Mexico*, Oregon

** California law requires that all projectiles be certified lead-free.

 

[Macintosh]

You guys do realize the issues in each state that drive the (perceived or real) need for differing regulations are different, right?

 

[30338]

I know after looking at the 72 pages of the Colorado big game book, that I sit back and think "If only we had some more regulations or laws, it would be better".

For muzzleloader, iron sights only and let it go. No minimum caliber restraints, no ignition restraints. For archery, if it shoots one arrow at a time, we're good. For centerfire, any centerfire, any aiming device.

Then we can publish the dates of each season and get it down to maybe 8 pages. Hunter orange, advise you wear it but up to you.

I believe in a flat tax of around 12% on all income earned, no property taxes and no exceptions. We can shit can the IRS after that.

 

[cnelk]

Wyoming doesnt have a designated ML season. You can definitely use them during the rifle season though

 

[ElDiablito]

Wyoming doesnt have a designated ML season. You can definitely use them during the rifle season though

They do for antelope.

 

[ElDiablito]

+ California, Nevada, Washington. And many of them also allow sabots

Yeah, I was just listing the western states that allow scopes and 209s. Obviously it gets more complicated with all the possible combinations of “modern” allowances.

(And, side note, who considers Kansas, Nebraska and Iowa, “western states?” ) I don’t.

 

[jimh406]

Then we can publish the dates of each season and get it down to maybe 8 pages.

I don't think the weapon descriptions are what makes the regulations so many pages.