Tossing $ to the wind in Colo!

[Jimss]

I have always been a weighted point skeptic for sheep, moose, and mtn goat in Colo I think a lot of guys believe that every year they apply and gain a pt they have a better % chance of drawing. Does a hunter that has applied for 20 years for a tag have a 20%, 10%, or 0.1% better chance to draw than someone just starting off?

From what I understand Colo weighted points for sheep, moose, and mtn goats are virtually worthless once a hunter has 3 pts? Having 3pts + 1 wted pt vs 3 pts + 20 wted pts aren't a whole lot different? It all hinges around being lucky and drawing a low random number.
Applicants that buy a fishing, small game, turkey license are eligible to apply for sheep, moose and mtn goat in Colo. According to the regs applicants can apply for sheep, moose, and mtn goat units without paying the spendy pref pt fees.

I certainly have a tough time tossing $ to the wind. When a guy with 0 pts has 0.5 chance to draw and a guy with 20 pts has 2.5% chance to draw that's simply horrible odds of drawing after 20 years of applying! I really don't see any significant difference between 0.5 and 2.5% chance of drawing? That's 2.5 chances in 100.....terrible! 20 years of applying x $100/year is $2,000 with little chance to draw after 20 years! If a nonres applies for moose, sheep, and goats that $6,000 tossed to the wind for close to 0% chance to draw!

The other terrifying thing is that there are more hunters joining the pool of applicants each year...which is gaining at a lot higher rate than tags are issued. That means everyone's draw odds are decreasing every year. It's tough to say how many new guys will join the pool in the next 20 years? You actually can't look at the current level of applicants because there likely will be a lot more applicants 5, 10, an 20 years from now!


So is it really worth residents spending $50/year and nonres $100/year to gain an additional weighted point? From what I understand it really isn't worth forking out cash to do this for only a fraction of a % better chance to draw. I wonder if enough hunters don't fork out $50 or $100/year if the CPW would change to a draw system where pts actually mean something? I though I would toss this out there to see if I am really missing something and wted pts actually are more valuable than I think? Is it really worth the expense?

With all that said, it's possible to apply for Colo sheep, moose, and goat every year without paying spendy pref pt fees. I really don't think it's worth it and am seriously considering pulling the plug and just applying for tags without paying pref pt fees!


Reply to Thread

 

[Mike Islander]

States are making it very attractive to go to New Zealand or Africa or some other place that will exceed your wildest expectations for less money, especially if you have Sky Miles and can fly for free.

 

[Trial153]

This worth the read. There is no way to argue that there is a slight Statistical advantage. However that advantage needs to be weighted against persons perceived value of that difference. Also the lenth of time your willing to pay for the difference. Meaning there is less vaule to pay for 5 weighted points verse the Cumulative effect of an increase over say 20 years.

Toprut - Western Big Game Hunting Reference

Draw odds, harvest data, interactive maps and more - Toprut is the most open and accessible western big game hunting research site ever created.

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[ozyclint]

States are making it very attractive to go to New Zealand or Africa or some other place that will exceed your wildest expectations for less money, especially if you have Sky Miles and can fly for free.

^^this.

Just go to NZ and DIY hunt some of the most spectacular mountain terrain in the hunting world.

 

[MtGomer]

The worst thing that could happen is making a system where ‘points actually mean something’.
Your problem isn’t that you don’t have enough points. It’s that there’s too few sheep tags and too many people that want to hunt them.

A preference point system benefits the people on the ground floor when it starts and F’s everyone else in the future.
They work good for things where there are relatively high tag levels and states crank through the tag holders (deer, elk, etc).

 

[ckleeves]

I think a good % of people will continue to buy points because they don’t understand how the MSG draw works in CO.

I didn’t pay for another moose point last year. I don’t care that much about CO moose, and I can look at odds and see spending 50.00 a year for the next 10 years isn’t going to change anything with the number of people coming into the draw. If I get lucky that’s cool but I’m not certainly never planning on drawing.

Now sheep I continue to pay, not really sure why but I would REALLY like to draw and any slight increase in odds Is worth it to me. If the system every changes to true preference, bonus points, squared points etc I would like to be in a position where I’m in the upper tier I guess.


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[5MilesBack]

States are making it very attractive to go to New Zealand or Africa or some other place that will exceed your wildest expectations for less money, especially if you have Sky Miles and can fly for free.

New Zealand and Africa have moose and bighorn sheep to hunt????

Ya, I've already got 3 and 12 for sheep and moose so I'm done paying for points. I'll just continue to watch others with 3 and 2 draw those tags instead, like they do every year.

 

[jray5740]

FWIW....I will continue to buy my points. Now I have very high points for all of Colorado's "Big 3", and hope to draw soon....but I will continue to pay because I believe that in some small way my son and his son ad so on will have a small chance of enjoying that hunt through my conservation efforts NOW. In my humble opinion, I believe that if someone elects not to buy their point then they shouldn't be able to draw that year, because what value to the hunting community or to wildlife in general has that hunter added by simply drawing a tag?

Who knows maybe Im crazy and off my rocker......I will also keep paying Montana and Wyoming for a small chance to draw a tag, but for the assurance that maybe my son will be able to draw based off of my conservation efforts. Every year I cross my fingers its my year after nearly 20 years in Elk, Moose, Sheep, and Goat in CO as a RESIDENT or nearly 20 in other states. Lots of "$$$$" well spent in my opinion.

 

[kscowboy01]

Ya, I've already got 3 and 12 for sheep and moose so I'm done paying for points. I'll just continue to watch others with 3 and 2 draw those tags instead, like they do every year.

If you are willing to get a bow and practice all summer, there are some units that you'd be likely to draw and have a shot at a ram, especially if you hired an outfitter. How bad do you want to sheep hunt?

 

[5MilesBack]

If you are willing to get a bow and practice all summer, there are some units that you'd be likely to draw and have a shot at a ram, especially if you hired an outfitter. How bad do you want to sheep hunt?

LOL.....I have a few bows and shoot year round. All I put in for are archery tags. The hunt will come later........the hard part is getting the tag.

 

[Coveyleader]

Colorado has been more than good to me that past few years. I can't, and won't complain.

I will keep paying the point costs here as I feel the CDOW as of late has made so many changes without thought, it's just a matter of time before they make another on how the points actually work. When that happens I want to be at the top, not mid tier. I do agree, if you look at the big picture, your money isn't buying you much.


Since moving here back in 01 I've killed two rams, two billies and have the points to draw a again.

Drawing a moose tag would be the ultimate.

 

[txtransplant]

Colorado has been more than good to me that past few years. I can't, and won't complain.

I will keep paying the point costs here as I feel the CDOW as of late has made so many changes without thought, it's just a matter of time before they make another on how the points actually work. When that happens I want to be at the top, not mid tier. I do agree, if you look at the big picture, your money isn't buying you much.


Since moving here back in 01 I've killed two rams, two billies and have the points to draw a again.

Drawing a moose tag would be the ultimate.

I did the math on moose as a new resident with zero points a couple years ago. The conclusion that I *DREW* (get it?) was that it would be better to save up for a nice Alaska moose hunt than start building points in Colorado.

 

[Newtosavage]

I did the math on moose as a new resident with zero points a couple years ago. The conclusion that I *DREW* (get it?) was that it would be better to save up for a nice Alaska moose hunt than start building points in Colorado.

I came to this same conclusion years ago, and it's a great excuse to go to AK or even Canada to hunt anyway. When I think of moose, I think of AK or Maine. I don't think of Colorado even though I've seen more moose than legal bulls in my past 2 seasons there. That's just how I think I guess.

When I do finally go moose hunting, it will be in AK.

 

[Blockcaver]

I put in for CO moose for 25 years from the first draw in 1984 through 2009 when I moved to BC. Never drew, but did draw and arrow two rams and two billies there. The silver lining was drawing WY moose after about 12 applications back in '92 and arrowed one.

Now i just buy a moose tag but they usually are not my primary focus.

 

[FLAK]

I did the Western Points game for 5 or 6 years before I figured out it's a scam.

 

[RidgeNinja91]

I put in for CO moose for 25 years from the first draw in 1984 through 2009 when I moved to BC. Never drew, but did draw and arrow two rams and two billies there. The silver lining was drawing WY moose after about 12 applications back in '92 and arrowed one.

Now i just buy a moose tag but they usually are not my primary focus.

Are all tags OTC for Residents there? I know nothing about BC or Canada in general when it comes to hunting.

 

[as.ks.ak]

I put in for CO moose for 25 years from the first draw in 1984 through 2009 when I moved to BC. Never drew, but did draw and arrow two rams and two billies there. The silver lining was drawing WY moose after about 12 applications back in '92 and arrowed one.

Now i just buy a moose tag but they usually are not my primary focus.

I am more interested in hearing about moving from
The US to BC, I can’t imagine that’s an easy task unless you were either already a dual
Citizen or your wife was? If not, what’s that process look like? Super curious, because it certainly sounds like it could be a nightmare of paperwork etc.


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[5MilesBack]

Ya, I've already got 3 and 12 for sheep and moose so I'm done paying for points. I'll just continue to watch others with 3 and 2 draw those tags instead, like they do every year.

The funny thing was......after making this post I drew both sheep and moose in 2020. And on my applications I selected the "not buying a point" option, as I really was done buying those points if I didn't draw. There were a bunch of guys above me with more points that didn't draw, and there were guys with less points that also drew.

 

[Coveyleader]

Colorado has been more than good to me that past few years. I can't, and won't complain.

I will keep paying the point costs here as I feel the CDOW as of late has made so many changes without thought, it's just a matter of time before they make another on how the points actually work. When that happens I want to be at the top, not mid tier. I do agree, if you look at the big picture, your money isn't buying you much.


Since moving here back in 01 I've killed two rams, two billies and have the points to draw a again.

Drawing a moose tag would be the ultimate.

Drew moose that year........ Max points on goats right now and once I draw, I will be out for good.

 

[conley417]

The funny thing was......after making this post I drew both sheep and moose in 2020. And on my applications I selected the "not buying a point" option, as I really was done buying those points if I didn't draw. There were a bunch of guys above me with more points that didn't draw, and there were guys with less points that also drew.

How did the sheep hunt go?