To Rebarrel or Not?

[Long Cut]

I did not realize you were that fragile and not able to pick up on the point I was trying to make.

I’d rather keep this thread on topic and meaningful. Thank you sweetheart

 

[Vern400]

Hey guys, I keep shooting stuff in the lungs and they arent dying in their tracks, I think I need a bigger gun......

Bumping up to a 308 isnt going to change anything.

Yep. That's the "I want it to run" shot.
High shoulder shooter, and no apology and no runny runny.

 

[easternoregonballistics]

It sounds to me like you want a double lung and an exit. If you're going to keep shooting the lungs I would suggest an 80 grain hammer hunter. You'll get an exit with quite a bit of damage in the lungs. If you want to move to a shoulder shot a 90 grain accubond would be the direction I would go.

 

[Vern400]

A 243 is not incompetent on deer by any means.
your impact velocity is not so high.
A bullet that expands very rapidly in the first two inches, but still holds together through exit is what you need. "24 inches of penetration" isn't helping you if the bullet opens at 6 or 8 in. You've lost much of your opportunity to cause trauma at that point. It's ironic but some of the less expensive cup and core bullets outperform others as the velocities decrease. That's why I roll my eyes when I hear people trying to shoot 180 coppers out of a 308. They missed the whole strategy. If you can get a standard game King out the barrel at 2700 ft per second it's a pretty incredible performer. If you want deer to drop right away it's important that you use one that opens very rapidly, at the range and velocity you intend to make contact.

Obviously a 308 carries a lot more energy and potential tissue damage than a 243. But I think matching bullet performance to the game and impact velocity makes more difference.

Don't mean to start another pissing match but I'm a high shoulder shooter too. My deer don't run.
In actual numbers seven of my last 100 dear moved more than 20 ft. Of the three I lost, on two I was unable to make a high shoulder shot due to shot presentation and one was because the bullet failed to open up at 200 yards. I retested that same bullet the next week on another deer at the same range and got the same result. But I recovered that one. And then I used a GPS app to make a geo.circle, and found the remains of the first year I lost. And I will not use that bullet again on dear.

So 7 mm 08 or 308 will be more lethal at the yardage you mention, what other factors are quite possibly more important.

 

[Long Cut]

A 243 is not incompetent on deer by any means.
your impact velocity is not so high.
A bullet that expands very rapidly in the first two inches, but still holds together through exit is what you need. "24 inches of penetration" isn't helping you if the bullet opens at 6 or 8 in. You've lost much of your opportunity to cause trauma at that point. It's ironic but some of the less expensive cup and core bullets outperform others as the velocities decrease. That's why I roll my eyes when I hear people trying to shoot 180 coppers out of a 308. They missed the whole strategy. If you can get a standard game King out the barrel at 2700 ft per second it's a pretty incredible performer. If you want deer to drop right away it's important that you use one that opens very rapidly, at the range and velocity you intend to make contact.

Obviously a 308 carries a lot more energy and potential tissue damage than a 243. But I think matching bullet performance to the game and impact velocity makes more difference.

Don't mean to start another pissing match but I'm a high shoulder shooter too. My deer don't run.
In actual numbers seven of my last 100 dear moved more than 20 ft. Of the three I lost, on two I was unable to make a high shoulder shot due to shot presentation and one was because the bullet failed to open up at 200 yards. I retested that same bullet the next week on another deer at the same range and got the same result. But I recovered that one. And then I used a GPS app to make a geo.circle, and found the remains of the first year I lost. And I will not use that bullet again on dear.

So 7 mm 08 or 308 will be more lethal at the yardage you mention, what other factors are quite possibly more important.

Thank you. I believe this is more or less the conversation and discussion I was trying to have, but it’s hard to portray through text and I did a poor job in doing so.

Bullet selection for shorter barrels; and whether a .243 or .308 in a 16.5” barrel would be a better “overall” whitetail caliber.
Better “overall” being- Bullet selection, Powder Burn for 16” barrel, Bullet Velocities & Performance, Barrel Life….

Shot Placement is always critical…… BUT what #1 Bullet Style & #2 Caliber/Barrel Length & #3 Shot Distance will provide the “best” overall result in real world deer hunting applications.

 

[MallardSX2]

The 243 sucks as a Deer caliber. I would re-barrel to a 308.

But that’s just me.

 

[Vern400]

Thank you. I believe this is more or less the conversation and discussion I was trying to have, but it’s hard to portray through text and I did a poor job in doing so.

Bullet selection for shorter barrels; and whether a .243 or .308 in a 16.5” barrel would be a better “overall” whitetail caliber.
Better “overall” being- Bullet selection, Powder Burn for 16” barrel, Bullet Velocities & Performance, Barrel Life….

Shot Placement is always critical…… BUT what #1 Bullet Style & #2 Caliber/Barrel Length & #3 Shot Distance will provide the “best” overall result in real world deer hunting applications.

If you think about it, a really short 243 you're giving away velocity, which is the one thing it really has. You're in 6.5 Grendel territory, if that.

If I were doing a 16.5 barrel I would go with a 308, a faster burning powder like CFE 223 and a bullet not exceeding 150, perhaps even a screaming 125. And keep it to 300 yd, maybe 400 if you can get 2600 FPS with the 150. And there's no doubt I would use a Sierra game King. Not tipped just the old fudge one. I've put over 10,000 lb of deer on the ground with those, very very few losses. You might want to do a good study with Gordon's reloading tool to pick your powder. You're going to have really crappy standard deviations and velocity variation if you're throwing fire out the end of the barrel I would guess. It's kind of a non-standard configuration so I would go through the trouble of really trying to pick what works right.

I had trouble with my M4 because 4064 powder was not fully burning. ES was like 150! I switched over to CFE 223 powder and the extreme spread went down to like 34 ft per second. Some of the reloading software may help you avoid the problem I had.

But if I personally was building a short deer gun,
Well. I don't like chasing deer. I want DRT.
In your configuration the old fudge gun is better.
And I don't give a crap if some schmo comes and touts the 6 mm. In the bushes, their opinion doesn't matter. You have to give away the best part of a 243 to get your configuration.