Tips for getting tighter groups out of my 350L Winchester

[Annapolis]

Got some range-time in yesterday with my Winchester XPR 350 Legend (here in straight-wall Maryland). Been using this setup for the past three years.

I'm getting pretty consistent 2-MOA groups at 100 yards. Since most of my shots on deer are inside of 75---usually closer to 50---that's good enough for reliable, ethical hunting---really, even 2 MOA at 100 is probably fine for hunting out to 100 on a side-on or quartering away shot. (But I honestly might not risk it.)

Long story short, I want to get better groups so I can be confident at longer distances, recognizing that with the 350L I'll probably never shoot much past 100, and certainly not past 150. I'd like to get to the point where---at least at the range with a very stable rest---I can get closer to or inside 1 MOA at 100. Just wondering what tips people might have for that. I'm trying to work on breath control and trigger pull technique, but would welcome any pointers on those, as well as anything else.

Is 1 MOA even a realistic expectation for this combo (the XPR using Winchester practice ammo)? I tend to blame the shooter not the gun, and I don't think spending $3500 on a NULA Wilson Combat 20S is going to solve the problem. But I also don't want to beat myself up too badly if I'm up against the limits of my gear.

My scope is a dot reticle maxing out at 9x, which feels like plenty of magnification for 100yds. And I can definitely see the dot moving a little as I aim and shoot---using a front rest and the butt anchored in my armpit. So I'm pretty sure the issue is that I'm not getting things as stable and motionless as they need to be. ...I also feel like the trigger could be lighter, but that's probably a cop-out.

Thanks in advance to anyone who bothers to reply.

 

[wesfromky]

Try some different ammo? I have been using the bear creek ballistics ammo for a few years and it is accurate works great on the deer that I have shot with it.

The other thing is to get a silencer - that will help with the blast and recoil.

 

[AlabamaMountainMan]

Got some range-time in yesterday with my Winchester XPR 350 Legend (here in straight-wall Maryland). Been using this setup for the past three years.

I'm getting pretty consistent 2-MOA groups at 100 yards. Since most of my shots on deer are inside of 75---usually closer to 50---that's good enough for reliable, ethical hunting---really, even 2 MOA at 100 is probably fine for hunting out to 100 on a side-on or quartering away shot. (But I honestly might not risk it.)

Long story short, I want to get better groups so I can be confident at longer distances, recognizing that with the 350L I'll probably never shoot much past 100, and certainly not past 150. I'd like to get to the point where---at least at the range with a very stable rest---I can get closer to or inside 1 MOA at 100. Just wondering what tips people might have for that. I'm trying to work on breath control and trigger pull technique, but would welcome any pointers on those, as well as anything else.

Is 1 MOA even a realistic expectation for this combo (the XPR using Winchester practice ammo)? I tend to blame the shooter not the gun, and I don't think spending $3500 on a NULA Wilson Combat 20S is going to solve the problem. But I also don't want to beat myself up too badly if I'm up against the limits of my gear.

My scope is a dot reticle maxing out at 9x, which feels like plenty of magnification for 100yds. And I can definitely see the dot moving a little as I aim and shoot---using a front rest and the butt anchored in my armpit. So I'm pretty sure the issue is that I'm not getting things as stable and motionless as they need to be. ...I also feel like the trigger could be lighter, but that's probably a cop-out.

Thanks in advance to anyone who bothers to reply.

Have you tried multiple ammo options? I had a tikka t3x ss in 30-06, and it shot hornady precision hunter and federal terminal ascents consistently at around 1" to 1.5" at 100 yards for 5 shot groups, but the barnes ttsx 168g would consistently touch and stayed under an inch. If not, I would pick up a few different options in varying grain weights, manufacturers, and bullet offerings and see if your barrel just prefers one. You may find that your specifc gun prefers one specific load, or maybe it just doesn't like that one you've been shooting. You can also recheck your torque specs across the gun and scope system.

Either way, you're still fine out to 150 yards.

 

[Annapolis]

I will definitely try out some different ammo options. At some of the places I hunt I believe we are soon going to have to use copper, so that will be a limiting factor.

 

[onlybrowning]

I'd be looking at your bench setup first. Your goal right now is not shooting practice, but seeing the accuracy potential of the setup, so you need to eliminate as many variables as possible. You mentioned a front rest and anchoring the butt into your armpit. Are you using a benchrest setup, a front bag, a bipod? What about the back? Rear bag, rolled up shirt, etc.? You mentioned seeing the crosshairs moving at 9X. Take the time to get this part rock solid before looking at different ammo, scope, etc.

 

[bigunit]

If you're getting 2" with the winchester 145gr factory crap 1" is doable with better ammo. Mine keeps federal 180 gr under 1" and handloads are even better.

 

[AlabamaMountainMan]

I will definitely try out some different ammo options. At some of the places I hunt I believe we are soon going to have to use copper, so that will be a limiting factor.

If you have to go copper, I would start by giving this a try and see if your gun likes it: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1024438950?pid=743984

 

[SBR Sarge]

Another vote for the Bear Creek Ballistics ammo. It is solid copper, too.

I’ve been dropping whitetails with it for several years and it works dang well.

Premium Ammunition | Custom Muzzleloaders | Bear Creek Ballistics

Bear Creek Ballistics develops high performance ammunition and shooting systems for centerfire and inline muzzle loading firearms. Our goal is to boost our customers opportunities to succeed in the field.

www.bearcreekballistics.com

 

[Macintosh]

2moa is totally fine for the ranges you are talking about—the gun is not the weak link in accuracy for hunting anyway, it wont be what causes any miss.

If you are trying to find mechanical precision, your bench setup needs to be rock solid. Front bag AND rear bag so both ends of the gun are stabilized. NOT a lead sled. You should not be able to detect one iota of movement—if you can, thats the biggest problem to address first.
Once thats addressed then you can move to your trigger press, breathing, trying different ammo, etc.

Be aware that if you are shooting 3-round groups you are going to experience variability between individual groups (both group size and point of impact) regardless of how precise your technique is. The gun will put bullets into a circle of X-size in a bell-curve (so 65-ish % of shots closer to center, 30-ish% sprinkled outside that, and a few outliers sprinkled outside that) even before you introduce any variability from the shooter, so if you really want to compare different ammo you need to shoot and overlay multiple groups, or shoot 10+ round groups. Otherwise you just dont have enough info to say that one load is better or even different than another.

 

[KHntr]

Slightly different take on it here….

Stop worrying about shooting from the bench and squeezing a half inch out of your rifle.

Change up your target and your location. Shoot at beer cans at 150 yards over crossed sticks or over your day pack or over a bag from prone.

That will build more confidence, shooting at irregular shaped targets from field positions, and show you your actual range limitations more clearly.

 

[Annapolis]

Point well taken. My logic here is all about confidence building: I want to feel that when I pull the trigger in the field, I can do so with the self assurance of someone who can shoot very well under ideal conditions—which presumably means I’ll be more reliable under field conditions too. But I can also see the wisdom of focusing on field simulations and not worrying about static range scenarios.

 

[KHntr]

You are viewing that from the wrong angle possibly….

Your confidence in your setup is already shaky when shooting under “ideal conditions” otherwise you wouldn’t have started the thread. You are too hung up on trying to shave a half inch off your groups, which doesn’t matter at all for your hunting conditions. Period. It’s more likely that you will use it as a mental excuse for a miss in the field nefore you even take the shot, “I just couldn’t get steady enough. I didn’t have both my rests. My hands were cold. But I know I could have made that shot at the range, so it has to be a problem with the gun”…. See where I’m going with this?

Now, you need to relearn what actually matters and prove to yourself that your system and you are good enough to accomplish your goal of hitting a deer properly at 150 yards.

Start shooting at irregularly shaped targets (like a beer can) at your max distance (150 yards). Don’t worry so much about making actual hits, but take note of where you are actually landing shots. After the first few and you get more comfortable you’ll undoubtedly notice that even the ones that don’t hit the cans are absolutely close enough to land in the lungs.

Shooting at something that isn’t a square target on a board with a dot on it forces your brain to focus differently - although the first few shots the first time you try it might be more along the lines of shooting in its general direction - you’ll train yourself to concentrate on making the hit, and you’ll learn that your rifle is more than capable of meeting your requirements when you stop obsessing about how small your groups aren’t.