Tipi Tent in Severe Weather

[Bigbull]

Me and my buddy are going on a wilderness elk hunt next year. We are using llamas and will be going nine miles in.

My question is how well A Seek Outside 8 man tipi will work in cold (possibly down to zero) weather and heavy snows. How much snow can they handle? I have a small 5 lb titanium stove, but I was also considering a collapsible outfitter stove (about 35 lb).

The plan would be to stay in there for 8-10 days.

I am sure some of you guys are a lot more experienced with this type of thing than I am. Would love to hear your thoughts.

Bigbull

 

[mdog]

I've been caught in heavy wet snows on two seasons of archery elk and used it in rifle with snow on the ground. Really cold weather i.e. rifle, with a stove is great. The smaller stove would do quite well since you'll be using it to dry the tent/clothes and short times AM/PM. Mine sucks in heavy wet snows that occur during archery. The snow slides to the periphery and accumulates there. This puts a LOT of weight on the center pole. (I use trekking poles and they're bent like a....bow.). As the perimeter shrinks so do the inside dimensions...a lot! This is what alerted me to the problem during the night. Had to get up and use the foam pad that I glass on to scoop the snow off the tent. I have a smaller 3 man tepee, 7.5 Titanium Goat that they made in cuben fiber for me. Sil-nyon would let the snow slide off better but will still accumulate with the same problems. Don't get me wrong, I love this tent!! but I don't think any tent handles heavy, wet snow without some help.

 

[greentimber]

Yep. This

 

[FreeRange]

I did two trips in a SO 8 man this past year. The big storm that came through central idaho mid-october ravaged our tent. The area we were in was miles and miles of standing dead timber and we knew a storm was coming so we set up the only place we weren't going to potentially have a tree fall on us, which I had almost happen the year before, missed by about 30' and was terrifying.

The downside was we were in an exposed spot with less than ideal soil and no trees to guy out too. When the storm really hit it flattened our tent. In no small part it was operator error, we didn't bring enough stakes to guy out the tent and with a shelter of that size guyouts are key for bucking wind. Instead of being convex to the wind the tent gets concave and scoops the wind. It ripped out all the MSR groundhogs on one side of the tent and if two of us hadn't grabbed the tent it would have blown a long ways off. We broke down camp at 4 in the morning in the rain and wet snow and went out and killed 2 bucks that morning. Winds were 50-60mph I'd say. I'd used heavy logs as guyouts and when the tent went it picked up one and flung it 15' to land right next to me, an unbelievable amount of force but at that point our "tent" was more like a "sail" than anything.

The next trip was mid-november and with another heavy storm rolling in we guyed out the tent super tight and it weathered it fine. It was unnerving for my buddies because the tent was definitely moving a lot but I slept like a baby. Temps on that trip got down as low as 10 at least and we were super toasty with the XL stove.

I've always worried about leaving a tipi all day with heavy snow accumulation but have never experienced more than 6" of snow before getting back to sweep off the tipi so I can't comment on how well they fare in that situation.

The only tent that would really fare better in that situation would be something like a Hilleberg or just a smaller tipi. If you're packing in on llamas I'd take some beefier stakes and bring a liner because it will add warmth and cut down on condensation.

 

[Bigbull]

That's the kind of feedback I was hoping to get. Thanks a lot.

I am thinking we will be OK.

 

[mtnrunner260]

I would take something else besides an additional 30lbs of stove.
The thing with these heated shelters to keep in mind is that the stove is not designed nor capable of keeping you warm throughout the night.
Your bag/pad system needs to be capable of doing that. But the stove makes it tons better to get out of the bag in the am and dry clothes off in the pm.

 

[durangobrad]

Instead of taking the additional 30lbs for a stove that wont really do much for you other than take up valuable space in the tipi I would bring a collapsible back country shovel. The light ones weigh around 1lb and this will allow you to dig out a level spot to put the tent and you can also build walls around the tent to block wind and drifting snow.

 

[Lionel Hutz]

This thread reminded me of an 1895 Klondike Gold Rush discussion of shelter snow loads.

"I went out and carefully brushed the snow off the roof of the tent before retiring, for I had learned the importance of such a measure in roughing it in an even milder climate. If the interior of the tent is heated, the snow falling on the outside will, of course, become damp, and, later, when the fire has gone down or out, and the interior has become cold, the damp snow will freeze so hard that it is almost impossible to take down the tent. Many found this out to their sorrow when the next day they started to move ahead. The storm had been a cold one, and it was hours before they could pack their tents, and then they were weighted with ice and were extremely difficult to handle. People can cause themselves a world of trouble in Alaska by neglecting a few details." - Two Years in the Klondike and Alaskan Gold-Fields by William Haskell

You guys are having the same discussion 122 years later. The gear is different. I'm fairly confident that Bill Haskel's tent wasn't silnylon or cuben, and his description of his "Yukon stove" is crazy (it sits on a "gridiron" of three poles about eight feet long). But it's the same discussion - best practices for a hot tent in heavy snow. Kinda cool.

 

[beachbunny]

That looks like a good read Lionel

 

[Lionel Hutz]

Yeah, it's very interesting. And it's free because of the age of the book. You can download it here:

The author was the guy that the Discovery Channel show, Klondike, focused on.

 

[Kevin_t]

If expecting heavy snow, I pitch the larger tipis a couple inches smaller in diameter and use the guy outs. Doing this, creates much steeper angles on the lower 18 inches and is a better place for snow to run off to. Staking, is a balance. It isn't needed to take 16 heavy duty stakes, but 2 -4 can help anchor it much better. I have not thoroughly tested them yet, but I suspect 4 MSR cyclones would give pretty solid anchoring in less than ideal conditions.

 

[Mike7]

I had to leave a tipi up in the backyard once due to an unexpected trip, and after about 6" of really wet snow, one of the junctions of the carbon center pole snapped due to the extreme weight. The shelter was fine, and in a wilderness situation, a guy could cut a small tree I suppose for a replacement center pole.

I have a Riley Stove (?the Bullet), which is apparently small enough to be packable on goats/llamas and actually drafts better with the reducer to a 3" ultralight stainless steel rollup pipe that I put on it, than it did with the 4" pipe/hole it came with. When you order one, they will put whatever size hole you want in the top of the stove. The whole thing weighs 21 lbs I think (stove, pipe, TiGoat pipe damper, stovepipe top spark arrestor, & pipe reducer) and burns for at least 4-5 hours when full and dampered down (longer with the compressed logs I have tried as they don't burn as hot for me). That would keep the falling snow melting on your tipi walls much of the day while you were gone if you wanted that option?

 

[Bigbull]

It is interesting that you mention the Riley stove. I purchased a Riley little Amigo stove Just a few days ago. With the accessories I purchased with it, I am guessing it will be somewhere around 15-16 pounds. This stove will fit in the llama panniers, and it will be much more air tight than the collapsible stoves I was initially considering. All this will lead to a much longer burn and warmer tent.

I will add the small shovel to my list, and I will also be looking in to the MSR cyclones. I am not familiar with those.

Bigbull

 

[Formidilosus]

Set up the tipi correctly and make sure that it's super tight. Use the guy outs and you won't have any issues until well over 50mph. We used a 6 man Seek Outside tipi a couple of years ago in sustained 40mph measured winds with gusts over 70 for around 18-20 hours. What did it in was the stove pipe. Tore the insert for the pipe about 6in down the side from the constant beating.


As for snow, we just set it up "taller" instead of "wider" get it tight and haven't had an issue through a couple of good storms.

 

[Bubblehide]

x2^^^^^

Always use all the guy outs, and you will save yourself a lot of issues if the weather does pick up.

 

[AK Troutbum]

The biggest issue I've had with my 12 person is when dealing with heavy winds coupled with heavy rain fall. When the ground becomes saturated around the tipi from run off, the heavy winds will frequently cause the stakes to loosen and pull out of the softened soil. I haven't really found a good answer to this other than using the longest/biggest stakes possible and occasionally having to re-stake.


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[luke moffat]

The biggest issue I've had with my 12 person is when dealing with heavy winds coupled with heavy rain fall. When the ground becomes saturated around the tipi from run off, the heavy winds will frequently cause the stakes to loosen and pull out of the softened soil. I haven't really found a good answer to this other than using the longest/biggest stakes possible and occasionally having to re-stake.


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Agreed def had my 12 man in some heavy winds on both the north side of the Alaska range and Kodiak and occasionally it means playing whack a mole even with 12" stakes.

 

[bbrown]

AK Troutbum and Luke - what stakes are you guys using with the bigger tipis up there? Planning on bringing my 8 man up there next fall for a moose hunt and trying to decide if I need to upgrade my stakes. Typically run the bigger MSR cyclone stakes at either side of both doors along with the other 2 "cardinal" points and then the regular MSR ground hogs at the remainder.

 

[AK Troutbum]

I pretty much use all 9" Cyclones. They seem to hold as good, if not better than anything else I've tried. At times they're overkill but I'm okay with that.


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[dreamingbig]

Are you worried about your llamas in the cold and snow? I have seen some llamas get pretty wimpy in bad weather in the backcountry.

I would be more worried about them than the tent if it is zero and snowing heavy.


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