Tikka build or Seekins Havak element

[Bfish22]

I’ve never owned a seekins but wouldn’t doubt that they make quality rifles like the rest of their products. After shooting tikkas for so long and then having a custom built with a 90 degree bolt throw, I much prefer the shorter tikka throw. I don’t think op can go wrong either way, but I wouldn’t let tikka mag length be a deciding factor unless you’re dead set on touching lands with a 195.

 

[eoperator]

Actually if you look at the SAAMI reamer specs, It shows that the 7 PRC SAAMI chamber is optimized to shoot 184-195 high BC (low drag) bullets.

This is not right, the 7prc was designed around the 175eldx and 180eldm to operate at 2950-3000fps from a standard 3.34" magazine with 24" barrel. Listen to the honady 7prc podcast.

 

[Balderdash]

Run the numbers between a 175 out of the prc at 3000 fps and the 195 at 2850 and you’ll see that all you gain with the 195 is recoil. Berger load data shows max loads with these two bullets about 150 fps apart with like powders and same barrel pretty much across the board before someone says well my 195 does 2950. If it does, a 175 would probably do 3100 in your chamber if you pushed it as hard.

Here you go snuffing a discussion with facts. There seems to be a persistent and prolific cohort of posters who are under the impression that 3.34 somehow isn't enough to "optimize" a 7 PRC. As if .7+ BC bullets at 3.34 out of a 7 PRC case aren't better for long range hitting than just about every other extant comercially produced option in its class.

 

[bmart2622]

This is not right, the 7prc was designed around the 175eldx and 180eldm to operate at 2950-3000fps from a standard 3.34" magazine with 24" barrel. Listen to the honady 7prc podcast.

Its best to ignore everything he says regarding the 7 PRC

 

[Balderdash]

I'll add that if you get a Tikka, and you decide the tiny bit of extra COAL is something you want, it's pretty simple to get more COAL out of a Tikka.

 

[eoperator]

Its best to ignore everything he says regarding the 7 PRC

I am beginning to see this.

 

[Gila]

This is not right, the 7prc was designed around the 175eldx and 180eldm to operate at 2950-3000fps from a standard 3.34" magazine with 24" barrel. Listen to the honady 7prc podcast.

Don’t know what Hornady’s design intentions are. All I know is the math shows the SAAMI chamber is optimized to shoot 184 to 195 long bullets. We know this because the free bore is .233“ and the case is 2.28” Long. Most other 7s that shoot the heavies well have a free bore at or less than .220“. To give you an example, my 284 Win custom barrel is optimized to shoot the 180 VLDs. But I can put a 162 eld 15 back and still have enough bearing surface for the right amount of neck tension and powder space. It shoots the 162 eldx lights out. So it makes perfectly good sense that the 7 PRC will shoot the 175s or 180s well with a coal of about 3.34”. I don’t think it takes a rocket scientist to figure out that a longer bullet will need to be pulled out of the case further and thus the COAL will be longer.

P.S. BMART is a troll whose sole purpose is to sow mis-information and discontent in order to derail a thread. You won’t see anything other than “one-liner” posts from him.

 

[bmart2622]

I bet Hornady knows what there design intentions were and theyve made them clear but for some reason you just refuse to accept it, you're wrong.....yet again!!!!

 

[jhm2023]

I had an element in 6.5 PRC and really liked the rifle. My only real gripes about it was the stock wasn't great and the action would not allow port loading rounds as they'd hit the back of the barrel, so only mag feeding. Their customer service is great, however the upcharge to go their custom shop route is a flat fee regardless what you want to change, even if it's just the barrel length.

I sold that rifle to do a Tikka build in 7 PRC and I'm happier with the Tikka build. My main reasons for liking the Tikka build more are the barrel length I wanted, a better stock, ability to port load, and a locking bolt all at a lower price. It's a bonus that Tikkas are becoming the jeep of the gun world with the aftermarket support so I can change things when I want.

 

[TimberHunter]

Can we all just agree that the 7 PRC shoots big bullets at a high velocity? Regardless of its original design intentions, the outcome/end result is the same for the shooter


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[eoperator]

Don’t know what Hornady’s design intentions are. All I know is the math shows the SAAMI chamber is optimized to shoot 184 to 195 long bullets. We know this because the free bore is .233“ and the case is 2.28” Long. Most other 7s that shoot the heavies well have a free bore at or less than .220“. To give you an example, my 284 Win custom barrel is optimized to shoot the 180 VLDs. But I can put a 162 eld 15 back and still have enough bearing surface for the right amount of neck tension and powder space. It shoots the 162 eldx lights out. So it makes perfectly good sense that the 7 PRC will shoot the 175s or 180s well with a coal of about 3.34”. I don’t think it takes a rocket scientist to figure out that a longer bullet will need to be pulled out of the case further and thus the COAL will be longer.

It seems as if you are trying to create a problem where there is none. Why would anyone want to load 195's that are more expensive, harder to find, more recoil and worse terminal performance with nearly the same drop and wind?

 

[Bfish22]

Don’t know what Hornady’s design intentions are. All I know is the math shows the SAAMI chamber is optimized to shoot 184 to 195 long bullets. We know this because the free bore is .233“ and the case is 2.28” Long. Most other 7s that shoot the heavies well have a free bore at or less than .220“. To give you an example, my 284 Win custom barrel is optimized to shoot the 180 VLDs. But I can put a 162 eld 15 back and still have enough bearing surface for the right amount of neck tension and powder space. It shoots the 162 eldx lights out. So it makes perfectly good sense that the 7 PRC will shoot the 175s or 180s well with a coal of about 3.34”. I don’t think it takes a rocket scientist to figure out that a longer bullet will need to be pulled out of the case further and thus the COAL will be longer.

This is the 180 eldm at 3.34” .030” off the lands. Looks like hornady pretty much “optimized” the 7 prc for this bullet. .030” off lands, base of the shank above the neck/shoulder junction in sammi form. Sometimes you need to do more than the math and actually measure the bullet to the chamber and see what’s really going on, which I know is hard for you without an actual rifle to take these measurements to actually back up your opinions.

Also funny how you guys talk about how great the 6.8 western is based on less recoil than the prc, but then say you’d consciously choose the 195 over a 180 in a prc with nothing to gain besides recoil….

You continually throw different crap at the wall on tikkas chambered in 7 prc, but it’s all still crap.

Also pictured is a 180 vld touching lands at 3.34”, also looks pretty optimal with room to jump it .030” and still have the shank above the neck shoulder junction.

I still say a 175/180 in a 7 prc maximizes a tikkas capability. Prove me wrong, with facts please this time.

 

[Bfish22]

Sorry op for thread derailment

 

[Gila]

This is the 180 eldm at 3.34” .030” off the lands. Looks like hornady pretty much “optimized” the 7 prc for this bullet. .030” off lands, base of the shank above the neck/shoulder junction in sammi form. Sometimes you need to do more than the math and actually measure the bullet to the chamber and see what’s really going on, which I know is hard for you without an actual rifle to take these measurements to actually back up your opinions.

Also funny how you guys talk about how great the 6.8 western is based on less recoil than the prc, but then say you’d consciously choose the 195 over a 180 in a prc with nothing to gain besides recoil….

You continually throw different crap at the wall on tikkas chambered in 7 prc, but it’s all still crap.

Also pictured is a 180 vld touching lands at 3.34”, also looks pretty optimal with room to jump it .030” and still have the shank above the neck shoulder junction.

I still say a 175/180 in a 7 prc maximizes a tikkas capability. Prove me wrong, with facts please this time.

Looks like you are short some of the bearing surface. I wouldn’t load that long but each to his own. Ryan Furman over at LRO loaded this 195 berger round:

 

[Gila]

Getting back to the thread…i built a 6.8 Western on a Tikka action and I Like the rifle. But in hindsight wish i would have gone with the Seekins because it is a much better quality action and I would have actually been money ahead.

 

[Bfish22]

Looks like you are short some of the bearing surface. I wouldn’t load that long but each to his own. Ryan Furman over at LRO loaded this 195 berger round:

View attachment 677263

Find another reloader who has as long of a measurement touching the lands as Ryan. I read over tons of people’s measurements before choosing my reamer for the 7 prc. Other measurements I found were 3.46 and 3.47 touching the lands with the 195. Ryan’s 175 measurement touching lands is 3.47. Three other reloader measurements were 3.39, 3.39 and 3.40. Berger 190, Ryan’s measurement was 3.507, another reloader 3.445. See the trend here? For whatever reason, Ryan’s measurements on bergers are .060-.080” longer than many other rifles who used sammi reamers.

You always quote “most handloaders”. Well most handloaders try to have the base of the shank above the neck/shoulder junction to keep it above the donut zone, including Furman.

 

[Matt5266]

I've been contemplating this very topic for a while.... thanks OP. Following to make a decision as well.

 

[rileybassman]

Have Seekins and Tikkas and both are great... custom is fun, but you are on your own for support - so if you spend the same $ on a custom tikka vs a seekins, you basically are your warranty - seekins will cover you for anything you may ever need, plus can re-barrel for cheap, route stocks for rails etc.

You will likely love either - I like the Seekins more as the LoP is shorter and stock fits me better, mags are longer, company is close by and has great CS, and the rifles shoot amazing. But I do think Tikkas are on of the best off the shelf rifles there are.

 

[Mountainrancher]

Getting back to the thread…i built a 6.8 Western on a Tikka action and I Like the rifle. But in hindsight wish i would have gone with the Seekins because it is a much better quality action and I would have actually been money ahead.

What about the seekins makes it a better action? I’ve never handled one but as far as smoothness, ease/reliability of feeding, and having an integral rail I don’t know how it can get much better than a tikka.

 

[Gila]

I like the modular bolt of the Seekins. Certainly nothing wrong with a Tikka action if you run a short action cartridge long. I have two rifles built on a Tikka action. Building a third. Waiting on my prefit barrel in 6 creed.