Ti Goat Ptarmigan vs Borah Bivy M90?

[desertcj]

I haven't really had a problem dealing with mosquitoes in the past, but in some environments I like the thought of keeping a snake or scorpion from climbing inside my bag with me. I also think they would work well to keep my pad under my bag. Is a bivy really giving me anything else that I'm overlooking? My main question is regarding the two bivy's that I mentioned in the title. The Borah bivy is $40 cheaper. That matters to me, but $40 isn't the end of the world if the Ptarmigan is worth it. Any opinions or experience to share?

 

[fillthefreezer]

maybe i am wrong but i doubt very many people have used both

 

[desertcj]

Educated opinions would be OK with me. I've never used a bivy before...

 

[Ray]

The bora m90 is the only bivy I have used. First one as well, so my experience is limited. Sheep hunting we did not have a bug problem so never used the net. The side zip was awesome. The m90 material did soak through when in contact with the tarp covered in condensation. The sil nylon bottom is slicker than snot on a pig when placed on wet tundra. Scary slippery on a slope.
It packs up into a very small bundle.

 

[Jager]

A bivy is one of the most important pieces of kit you can have in your pack.

Adds layered warmth to your bag,

Ability to keep bugs out, I hate mozzies,

Waterproofs your bag, etc,

One of the first things to go in.

 

[a3dhunter]

The bora m90 is the only bivy I have used. First one as well, so my experience is limited. Sheep hunting we did not have a bug problem so never used the net. The side zip was awesome. The m90 material did soak through when in contact with the tarp covered in condensation. The sil nylon bottom is slicker than snot on a pig when placed on wet tundra. Scary slippery on a slope.
It packs up into a very small bundle.

Good point about the bottom of the bivy, I experienced the same thing. Actually I moved camp at one point after setting up and then thinking about it slipping. I also had problems with the m90 soaking through.

 

[desertcj]

The M90 not being waterproof is a good info point. I'm not knocking, just wondering why your bivy was in contact with your tarp enough to soak it with water?

 

[Jared Lampton]

I'm interested in this topic as well. I'd like to add a bivy to my kit. Really considering the Bora as well. Would be a good compliment to my down quilt. Does the silnylon bottom cause you to slide off your pad even on relatively flat ground?

 

[desertcj]

I'm interested in this topic as well. I'd like to add a bivy to my kit. Really considering the Bora as well. Would be a good compliment to my down quilt. Does the silnylon bottom cause you to slide off your pad even on relatively flat ground?

I was under the impression that most guys put their pad inside of the bivy...

 

[ftballman125]

I've only used the Borah bivy in the desert so far, so I can't really speak to condensation (I didn't notice any, which is no surprise) but the bivy is quite nice overall. It is a bit slippery on the bottom... you'll definitely want to stake it in the ground and try to find a flat spot. When you order it, you can custom order a few extra straps for staking out... that will take care of any slippage pretty well. I'd also get the side zip, it's very handy. I did notice a distinct increase in the warmth of my sleeping system and it was nice having it keep my pad underneath me.

 

[a3dhunter]

When mine soaked through it was when I only had the top covered when a light rain passed through. While there was water just sitting on top of the M90, my bag was also wet inside the bivy. I believe this was due to my sleeping bag contacting the m90 while it was wet. Anytime there has been a heavy/wet dew the water just pools up and does not pass through. I've only got about 20 nights with the Borah bivy.

I use a Big Agnes bag and pad, so I wasn't slipping off my pad but I was slipping down the mountain slope when turning over.

 

[Jager]

Unless a bivy bag is made from 100% GTX, or another generic type breathable waterproof fabric, there is no point carrying it, they must be 100% top and bottom to be of any use.

 

[desertcj]

OK, kinda sounds like the M90 Borah is basically good as a bug bivy and bag/pad sleeve. Anyone have experience with the Ptarmigan? I was looking at the USGI goretex outer bivy bag, but they are about 3lbs from what I can tell. Pretty drastic compared to the 7oz weight of the others! Of course I'd like it to be waterproof, but then again...why does it matter that much when I'm using it under a tarp shelter?

 

[Jager]

I mainly use the bivy as I rarely carry a shelter. Just makes getting into bed ultra fast, simply pull the bivy bag out with sleeping bag inside and get in.

They are an excellent survival tool, will add warmth factor to your bag, and act as an awesome wind barrier for minimal weight, I just cannot rate them highly enough. A tarp will not stop the wind sinking into your bones anywhere near as effectively.

Mine weighs just over 2 pounds, buggar all for the benefit I get out of it.

I remember when they first hit the military scene, we just couldn't get our hands on them fast enough.

 

[a3dhunter]

None of the ultralight bivy sacks are waterproof. Usually you have to get into the 2lb range for waterproof reliability.
I have used a cheap Cabelas XPG bivy for over 4 nights that is waterproof and only had condensation one night, extremely high humidity camped next to a stream on grass. The bivy weighs 26 oz.
The Borah performs great for use under a tarp. I was in a heavy rain with high winds for 5 hours this summer, I had a lot of spray come in sideways under the tarp. The top of the bivy was wet but my bag was dry. It was excellent in that situation.
Your first decision needs to be whether you want water resistant and ultra lightweight or if you want waterproof in all situations? Two different categories there.

 

[ftballman125]

If you want waterproof, I would suggest other choices than a bivy. There are tarptent type setups that are lighter than a number of the fully waterproof bivies, and even with waterproof bivies, condensation can be an issue in wet/cold environments. I use my Borah bivy with a tarp-poncho because the vast majority of the time I'm hunting, I have no threat of rain and just use the bivy. If 'desertcj' indicates that you spend a lot of time in the desert, I think that you won't go wrong with either the Borah or Ti Goat for keeping out the scorpions/fire ants/snakes. With a UL tarp, it'll cover most of the conditions you'd run into.

 

[chindits]

I got a large borah and found it too short in length coverage when I put my boots in the bottom of the bag. I'm 6', use a xtherm pad inside, I sleep under a tarp tent, and at 10* my boots are going inside. Not enough time in it for any other comments, but there was a fair amount of frost on the inside of the bivy.

 

[Jared Lampton]

Reply to post #9

Yeah I don't know. But I guess it could be done either way. I was thinking that putting the pad under the bivy would save wear and tear on the bivy bottom. I have no experience with this but have heard that the main issue with fully waterproof/breathable bivys is too much condensation. This is why I was considering a water resistant one and because I use a tarp shelter. Plenty of guys here with more experience than I on this subject...

 

[fillthefreezer]

OK, kinda sounds like the M90 Borah is basically good as a bug bivy and bag/pad sleeve. Anyone have experience with the Ptarmigan? I was looking at the USGI goretex outer bivy bag, but they are about 3lbs from what I can tell. Pretty drastic compared to the 7oz weight of the others! Of course I'd like it to be waterproof, but then again...why does it matter that much when I'm using it under a tarp shelter?

the borah and tigoat are very similar and in my camp they get run side by side.
they are not a full on weather bivy. what they are great at though is keeping your bag clean, keeping you on your pad, what i call incidental water. like coming into the tent with wet rain gear and sitting on it to take you boots off or rain thats blown in coming and going.
i have not seen one to be better than the other and both seem to have some condensation issues if the conditons are right( or wrong).
they are run inside a 'mid shelter so a 4season bivy isnt necessary for us and we probably would never concede the weight.
before i started using a bivy i i just used a chunk of tyvek but that didnt keep anything clean, "dryer", or me on my pad while rodeo sleeping

 

[Travis1984]

I have noticed some slight condensation, but not all the time. FTF and I ran a floorless shelter this last high hunt and had some pretty good rain. I don't think either of us had it "soak through." And I constantly woke up with the bottom touching the tent sides.

I will say, it's definetely a slippery little bugger. (Borah that is...)