Throating Options For Tikka 223 Using Longer Heavy Bullets

[Muley Buck]

I am looking to understand more about the various throating options available for the 223 rem. More specifically I have a Tikka CTR 223 that I am using the 75 ELD-M with Lapua brass, 24 Gr. 8208XBR and CCI 450. As of now I have got the bullets to shoot great and achieve good speed as well but are touching the lands in order to do so. I haven't had any of the tell tale signs of pressure either. I ran all the way up to 24.8 Gr and still no pressure as well. I have read that 8208 can exhibit pressure very quickly and I am not really looking to find out in a bad way. So I am questioning whether I could/should utilize a throating option to maintain accuracy and velocity and ensure pressure won't come and bite me in the ass. I also may very well may be completely overthinking this. I am very curious about the +P and the Wylde, not so much AI but then again any and all info is appreciated.

 

[gbflyer]

Looks like you've got a good recipe that you're happy with. The last thing I would do is throat it longer. It will get there the more you shoot it.

 

[Castle Rock]

Just clean your rifle every couple of hundred rounds and you won’t have an issue, this crap about never cleaning is just that.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

If you have something that works, why mess with it?

 

[KyleR1985]

what overall length are you loading?

 

[wind gypsy]

Wylde would be a whole new chamber reamer and +p is a little specialized. You’d be looking to just have a throater add some freebore as the simplest option. There are people that do it by hand with the ptg uni throater.

Safest is probably to leave it as is but I do understand the desire to tweak it.

 

[sierracharlie338]

Just a heads up, but you’re already one and a half to two grains over a couple book maxes that I looked at. Also, Lapua brass is very tough which could contribute to no pressure signs. Have you shot this load in warmer weather to see if you find pressure just with weather change?

Personally, I would AI it before having it throated for the added benefit of less trimming. Something as simple as adding .100 freebore gives you a miserable difference in performance also.

 

[Muley Buck]

Looks like you've got a good recipe that you're happy with. The last thing I would do is throat it longer. It will get there the more you shoot it.

If you have something that works, why mess with it?

This, is my initial thought as well. Validation helps. Honestly I am only exploring at this point to see if I may be missing something. I do like to tinker, so that is what prompted the post.

 

[Muley Buck]

what overall length are you loading?

2.484

 

[Muley Buck]

Just a heads up, but you’re already one and a half to two grains over a couple book maxes that I looked at. Also, Lapua brass is very tough which could contribute to no pressure signs. Have you shot this load in warmer weather to see if you find pressure just with weather change?

Personally, I would AI it before having it throated for the added benefit of less trimming. Something as simple as adding .100 freebore gives you a miserable difference in performance also.

I do realize I am over book max on this. I've never loaded this far past in any other cartridge before. Its what got my wheels turning about all of this.
Warmest I've shot it so far has been about 80° +/-.
It's not that I wouldn't like the added performance of AI, it's more the fact that it would be more work to fire form etc. Really trying to keep the reloading process with this round fairly simple.

 

[Chris in TN]

I like being off the lands a bit, not searching for peak accuracy, but trying - at least generally without overthinking - to stick to the principle of 'shoots good over the whole barrel life' described in this article:

More Bullet Jump Research!

This is the 4th article in a series on some new research on bullet jumps. Here is a recap of the pr...

precisionrifleblog.com

That seems to be maybe 0.060" or so off the lands with 6mm and 6.5mms. I can't say where that 'sweet spot' might be for .22s. But I suspect it's close to that 0.060". If I were you I'd probably try it with my COAL set to put me something between 0.040" to 0.060" short of the lands. If that fits within your magazine, you could shoot it as-is or push your powder charge a bit (I'm using Varget, it is very difficult to overdo Varget in a .223, I can't speak to your powder). But I wouldn't go to the trouble of having my rifle re-throated. YMMV.

I recently rebarreled my old Tikka with a newer 8-twist Tikka takeoff barrel. Mine has the typical long Tikka throat, at least relative to my rifle which is limited to about 2.4 mag length. I suppose that if I had your mag length I might see that as 'short' but I don't.

 

[Schmo]

My Tikka barrel was a tack driver. Sent it to Kampfeld for him to add freebore, and it’s still an absolute tack driver.

 

[KyleR1985]

my 223ai shot 77’s small. I throated it myself with unithroater to load them longer, and it shot smaller.

It shoots 88’s small too.

After throating, This was shots 6-10 at 200 yards with 77’s loaded .125” off lands…



Not sure how jump sensitive the eld’s are. But the TMK’s don’t care.

Here’s 88’s .100” off lands 27gr lever 2815fps 223ai 16” barrel. 3 shots 100 yards

 

[Muley Buck]

my 223ai shot 77’s small. I throated it myself with unithroater to load them longer, and it shot smaller.

It shoots 88’s small too.

After throating, This was shots 6-10 at 200 yards with 77’s loaded .125” off lands…

View attachment 1061849

Not sure how jump sensitive the eld’s are. But the TMK’s don’t care.

Here’s 88’s .100” off lands 27gr lever 2815fps 223ai 16” barrel. 3 shots 100 yards

View attachment 1061851

Nice! So I see you are also using 24 gr of 8208XBR in lapua brass. You aren't or haven't seen any sign of pressure pushing the 77 tmk? What velocities are you achieving? Rifle? Barrel?

 

[KyleR1985]

Nice! So I see you are also using 24 gr of 8208XBR in lapua brass. You aren't or haven't seen any sign of pressure pushing the 77 tmk? What velocities are you achieving? Rifle? Barrel?

Howa mini 16.5” 223ai not 223.

24gr of xbr under 77’s in 223ai at 2.375” did not scare me

 

[NWBLKTAIL]

My Tikka barrel was a tack driver. Sent it to Kampfeld for him to add freebore, and it’s still an absolute tack driver.

View attachment 1061793View attachment 1061794View attachment 1061796

How far off are you seating those 75’s?

 

[sierracharlie338]

I do realize I am over book max on this. I've never loaded this far past in any other cartridge before. Its what got my wheels turning about all of this.
Warmest I've shot it so far has been about 80° +/-.
It's not that I wouldn't like the added performance of AI, it's more the fact that it would be more work to fire form etc. Really trying to keep the reloading process with this round fairly simple.

I get the apprehension. I had it prior to building my first AI. Fireforming is a breeze. All you’re doing is loading bullets long with a stiff powder charge. Most of the time still getting as good or better groups during fireforming than as a standard cartridge.

 

[Schmo]

How far off are you seating those 75’s?

IIRC .020”