Thousands of acres of crop land getting turned into solar farms across the Midwest

[11boo]

Are the bulk of those panels coming from china?

They sure weren’t made by Solyndra.

 

[Windrunner17]

I gotcha man, I think you’ve got a good point. Any type of energy development can be negatively impactful.

That said I think the misnomer that so called “green” energy is better is patently false in a lot of ways.

We’ve come a long way in making mining and oil drilling less far less impactful, and we are throwing that progress away for something that is “green” yet in many ways more destructive to habitat.

Agreed 100%.

To be clear, I'm not defending solar. And it they are going to do solar why not outfit it on the roofs of buildings that are already there to minimize wildlife impact? Pretty much everything comes down to money.

It's a complex issue, no easy answers but I agree it's the shame the deforestation and environmental degradation that comes along with all the energy we make (and waste), especially with so-called "green" energies.

 

[TheTone]

I’d assume being in the middle of the country it’s private property?

 

[Rifleman86]

I’d assume being in the middle of the country it’s private property?

Yeah, and I’d also assume that’s why is not getting any attention, which is a shame.

 

[Windrunner17]

Cropland is also not great for wildlife to be honest. Yes, it does provide food, but massive crop monoculture causes a lot of environmental issues too.

Again, not to the same degree, but its it's there.

Everything we do as humans effects the environment. I'd love if we could re-wild most of America but that's not going to happen as long as people rely on food and energy and resources that have to come from somewhere.

 

[Rifleman86]

Cropland is also not great for wildlife to be honest. Yes, it does provide food, but massive crop monoculture causes a lot of environmental issues too.

Again, not to the same degree, but its it's there.

Everything we do as humans effects the environment. I'd love if we could re-wild most of America but that's not going to happen as long as people rely on food and energy and resources that have to come from somewhere.

I’d beg to differ that crop land isn’t that great for wildlife. Negatively impactful to some species? I’m sure. But it’s a shit load better than solar fields.

 

[sram9102]

I don't like seeing these huge solar fields going up as much as the next guy but who are we to tell private owners who to lease their land too? We have them going up all over Indiana and the landowners are getting better prices than they were getting from farmers leasing it for crops with zero overhead. Who can fault them for securing their families future with the stroke of a pen?

 

[Marbles]

Look at KY turns out reclaimed strip mines make great elk habitat. Also wells are lot less of a overall footprint on the landscape and pose a lot less of issues to migration routes.

I'm sure decommissioned solar farms can make great habitat too. I guess you are saying you would rather have a new strip mine half a mile from your house than a solar farm? Now, arguing that it effects less total land mass is valid (and can stimulate discussion).

You can mine coal and drill for oil with minimal wildlife impact. IIRC Wyoming produces as much oil as Saudi Arabia, but it would be hard to tell by looking at it, and there is still an abundance of habitat.

It costs more, but I think the vast majority of us are ok with a slight increase in cost for better reclamation and habitat.

Interesting podcast on the subject.

Lets see, in 2021 and 2022 WY highest producing month averaged 271,000 barrels per day.

Saudi Arabia averaged a production of 10,950,000 barrels per day in 2021, and it averaged over 10 million barrels per day for all of 2022.

Does the podcast make the claim on capacity or is that yours?

 

[Sccritterkiller]

View attachment 521243
I’d beg to differ that crop land isn’t that great for wildlife. Negatively impactful to some species? I’m sure. But it’s a shit load better than solar fields.

At least there aren't chain link fences around crop land and the aminals can move thru the area.

 

[Rifleman86]

I don't like seeing these huge solar fields going up as much as the next guy but who are we to tell private owners who to lease their land too? We have them going up all over Indiana and the landowners are getting better prices than they were getting from farmers leasing it for crops with zero overhead. Who can fault them for securing their families future with the stroke of a pen?

I'm sure decommissioned solar farms can make great habitat too. I guess you are saying you would rather have a new strip mine half a mile from your house than a solar farm? Now, arguing that it effects less total land mass is valid (and can stimulate discussion).


Lets see, in 2021 and 2022 WY highest producing month averaged 271,000 barrels per day.

Saudi Arabia averaged a production of 10,950,000 barrels per day and it averaged over 10 million barrels per day for all of 2022.

Does the podcast make the claim on capacity or is that yours?

IIRC the comment was about production capacity. Domestic production capacity was down in 2022 because the juice wasn’t worth the squeeze in light of the cheap oil prices during the Covid shutdown.

The podcast is ran by Dave Wilms and Nephi Cole, who both worked for governor Mead in WY and were heavily involved both in conservation and energy policy.

I may be misquoting it, but it was an extremely interesting conversation from people very much in the know. I’d give it a listen.

 

[Sccritterkiller]

I'm sure decommissioned solar farms can make great habitat too. I guess you are saying you would rather have a new strip mine half a mile from your house than a solar farm? Now, arguing that it effects less total land mass is valid (and can stimulate discussion).

I grew up in WV on the OH, KY boarder and have spent a lot time recreating on reclaimed strip mines. Strip mines have a end date as the resource will eventually be gone, just like logging, and the land will eventually be reclaimed/reforested..I think most of these solar farms are there to stay. Could be wrong but I haven't seen any examples of reclaimed solar farms and how it helps wildlife....Plus solar farms have way less economic benefit for the local economy in terms of jobs.

 

[Marbles]

IIRC the comment was about production capacity. Domestic production capacity was down in 2022 because the juice wasn’t worth the squeeze in light of the cheap oil prices during the Covid shutdown.

The podcast is ran by Dave Wilms and Nephi Cole, who both worked for governor Mead in WY and were heavily involved both in conservation and energy policy.

I may be misquoting it, but it was an extremely interesting conversation from people very much in the know. I’d give it a listen.

Highest WY production ever looks to be December of 2019 at 302,000 barrels per day (double check that as I was just skimming a giant table of numbers, source is linked). I hope it is a misquote, otherwise they are very much just spin doctors and being in a position to know only makes it worse. Is a transcript available? https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MCRFPWY2&f=M

 

[Doc Holliday]

I don't like seeing these huge solar fields going up as much as the next guy but who are we to tell private owners who to lease their land too? We have them going up all over Indiana and the landowners are getting better prices than they were getting from farmers leasing it for crops with zero overhead. Who can fault them for securing their families future with the stroke of a pen?

Yep.

My neighbor with 374 acres called me before listing for $1.7MM and wanted to know if I wanted to buy. He is a Dr who lives in another state and we have always had a good relationship in dealing with tresspassers, wildife, etc. Told him thanks for the heads up but I don't have $1.7MM nor can I finance it......so he sells it to a guy under a shell company LLC. Buyer calls me and asks if I want to sell, says he wants to build a family compound and be "close enough to smell each others grills, but not see each other" (I'll never forget that line). I tell him no, and tried talking to him about deer and hogs, etc...he didn't really seem to want to talk about it with me. We hung up and 2 weeks later there is an article in the local newspaper about a 4 million sq ft distribution center going there, and how it will bring jobs to the community (BS because they are all automated now). Come to find out all the county commissioners already knew about the whole thing and were cheering it on, and have already been issuing bonds to fund it. I went to zoning hearing and was a complete waste of time. So while $1.7MM may sound like alot of money, my neighbor got pennies on the dollar for what its worth after a simple zoning meeting.

I can guarantee you this is going on all across the country as well

 

[Rifleman86]

What maddens me the most is the fact I know there are high level CEO’s in an office building somewhere, who live in their downtown condo and have no connection to wildlife or rural America, high fiving each other about this and patting themselves on the back about “saving the environment.”

 

[Windrunner17]

View attachment 521243

I’d beg to differ that crop land isn’t that great for wildlife. Negatively impactful to some species? I’m sure. But it’s a shit load better than solar fields.

1. I agree much better than solar fields, which is why I said "not to the same degree".

2. Growing big bucks because of food availability is a very limited definition of *great* for "wildlife".

Is it great for the literal quadrillion of insects killed by pesticides? Is it great for the fish and aquatic organisms smothered to death by algae blooms from chemical fertilizer runoff? Is it great for the birds, rodents, reptiles, etc who die as a product of harvesting, chemical use, tilling, etc? Is it great for the soil erosion it causes, or the degradation of soil quality? Is the massive amount of water pumped in to irrigate crops good for the environment? Is it great for the humans eating wild game laced with all kinds of chemicals?

Sure, if you want to look at it from a standpoint of what can grow me the most, biggest deer, then crop monoculture might have an argument for being great. But I disagree when looking at the perspective of the entire ecosystem. Certainly better than solar farms, but that isn't a high bar to clear.

 

[Rifleman86]

Highest WY production ever looks to be December of 2019 at 302,000 barrels per day (double check that as I was just skimming a giant table of numbers, source is linked). I hope it is a misquote, otherwise they are very much just spin doctors and being in a position to know only makes it worse. Is a transcript available? https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MCRFPWY2&f=M

It’s been a looong time since I listened to the podcast, it may be a misquote. Give it a listen for yourself and find out. I don’t know these guys personally, but given their content and body of work, I have no doubt they are passionate about conservation.

 

[Windrunner17]

Yep.

My neighbor with 374 acres called me before listing for $1.7MM and wanted to know if I wanted to buy. Told him thanks but I can't......so he sells it to a guy under a shell company LLC. Buyer calls me and asks if I want to sell, says he wants to build a family compound and be "close enough to smell each others grills, but not see each other" (I'll never forget that line). I tell him no, and tried talking to him about deer and hogs, etc...he didn't really seem to want to talk about it with me. We hung up and 2 weeks later there is an article in the local newspaper about a 4 million sq ft distribution center going there, and how it will bring jobs to the community (BS because they are all automated now). Come to find out all the county commissioners already knew about the whole thing and were cheering it on, and have already been issuing bonds to fund it. I went to zoning hearing and was a complete waste of time. So while $1.7MM may sound like alot of money, my neighbor got pennies on the dollar for what its worth after a simple zoning meeting. They probably would have paid him 7 or 8 million without batting an eye, but just lied to him instead. Now all the other parcels getting listed are priced accordingly. My neighbor got screwed, and I can guarantee you this is going on all over the country.

Sad that guy was so deceptive. Living off the land and building a family compound where we can smell each other's grills is my genuine dream.

 

[Rifleman86]

1. I agree much better than solar fields, which is why I said "not to the same degree".

2. Growing big bucks because of food availability is a very limited definition of *great* for "wildlife".

Is it great for the literal quadrillion of insects killed by pesticides? Is it great for the fish and aquatic organisms smothered to death by algae blooms from chemical fertilizer runoff? Is it great for the birds, rodents, reptiles, etc who die as a product of harvesting, chemical use, tilling, etc? Is it great for the soil erosion it causes, or the degradation of soil quality? Is the massive amount of water pumped in to irrigate crops good for the environment? Is it great for the humans eating wild game laced with all kinds of chemicals?

Sure, if you want to look at it from a standpoint of what can grow me the most, biggest deer, then crop monoculture might have an argument for being great. But I disagree when looking at the perspective of the entire ecosystem. Certainly better than solar farms, but that isn't a high bar to clear.

I just have a question for you, have you ever worked on a farm or in agriculture? Lived in a rural environment or community?

The farmers I know are very passionate about being stewards of the land. Many I know are interested in or practicing no till farming to have less negative impact on the land and water.

I don’t think the solar farm CEO’s have the same attitude.

ETA They are getting priced out and barely scraping by. It’s sad to watch. I don’t know what the solution is, but I know what it isn’t.

 

[Rifleman86]

Yep.

My neighbor with 374 acres called me before listing for $1.7MM and wanted to know if I wanted to buy. He is a Dr who lives in another state and we have always had a good relationship in dealing with tresspassers, wildife, etc. Told him thanks for the heads up but I don't have $1.7MM nor can I finance it......so he sells it to a guy under a shell company LLC. Buyer calls me and asks if I want to sell, says he wants to build a family compound and be "close enough to smell each others grills, but not see each other" (I'll never forget that line). I tell him no, and tried talking to him about deer and hogs, etc...he didn't really seem to want to talk about it with me. We hung up and 2 weeks later there is an article in the local newspaper about a 4 million sq ft distribution center going there, and how it will bring jobs to the community (BS because they are all automated now). Come to find out all the county commissioners already knew about the whole thing and were cheering it on, and have already been issuing bonds to fund it. I went to zoning hearing and was a complete waste of time. So while $1.7MM may sound like alot of money, my neighbor got pennies on the dollar for what its worth after a simple zoning meeting.

I can guarantee you this is going on all across the country as well

We might be neighbors. It’s indeed sad to watch.

The most disgusting thing is watching folks cheer it on in the name of “progress.”

 

[jmez]

Yep.

My neighbor with 374 acres called me before listing for $1.7MM and wanted to know if I wanted to buy. He is a Dr who lives in another state and we have always had a good relationship in dealing with tresspassers, wildife, etc. Told him thanks for the heads up but I don't have $1.7MM nor can I finance it......so he sells it to a guy under a shell company LLC. Buyer calls me and asks if I want to sell, says he wants to build a family compound and be "close enough to smell each others grills, but not see each other" (I'll never forget that line). I tell him no, and tried talking to him about deer and hogs, etc...he didn't really seem to want to talk about it with me. We hung up and 2 weeks later there is an article in the local newspaper about a 4 million sq ft distribution center going there, and how it will bring jobs to the community (BS because they are all automated now). Come to find out all the county commissioners already knew about the whole thing and were cheering it on, and have already been issuing bonds to fund it. I went to zoning hearing and was a complete waste of time. So while $1.7MM may sound like alot of money, my neighbor got pennies on the dollar for what its worth after a simple zoning meeting.

I can guarantee you this is going on all across the country as well

So call him now, offer it to him at twice what he would of paid before. Got outside the development zone and buy back twice what you had.