TERMINATOR
FNG
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2021
- Location
- Grand Rapids, MI
I can share my experience with Thomson Outfittiers specifically on this topic.
Different hunt unit & camp, different guides but same Outfitter. Never met Todd before we packed up to go to the mountains with the cook, guides and other hunters. I am a dude that just hired him to take me hunting like you.
Knowing I was going on a guided, horseback hunt I never considered taking a frame pack since they have horses to haul the meat out. I had multiple conversations with Todd prior to booking but I never considered bringing a frame pack and I assumed I could bring a daypack. Being old and from 1000 foot elevation, I WANTED to carry the smallest possible daypack knowing I had a guide with knives and a horse to pack out the meat. So I had zero discussion about Framepacks, Daypacks, Fannypacks prior to booking. Obviously I have no idea what was and wasn't said during LRJammers conversations so I wont comment on that.
I booked assuming I would bring a small daypack (1500 cubic inches to be exact).
Just like LRJ, Todd requested I send the money for the Non Resident Special tag. Not clear if LRJ understands how the two tag system in Wyoming works. It has nothing to do with "Special Access"...they have two drawings, the Regular and a higher priced Special Drawing Pool. The assumption, and in MOST cases, the reality is the more expensive Special pool has fewer applicants and the draw odds are better. IN MOST CASES. Wyoming figures a certain % of people will pay more to increase their odds. It doesn't always work that way. Obviously Todd wants you to draw a tag vs. leave him with a empty spot in camp...so he suggests the client puts in for the Special draw. In LRJ's case this had sound logic. 2021 is the last season published by WG&F, and the year I hunted with Todd (I was in unit 98 Type 1). In 2021, had you put in for the lower priced Regular drawing, with 6 points you were 52% (50/50) to draw a tag between the Pref Points and Randon opportunity and 100% to draw with over 6 points. So Todd had 50/50 odds his hunter doesn't draw and he ends up with a empty spot in camp. In 2020, a hunter in the Regular pool was 100% to draw with 5 points. Demand for hunts out west exploded after COVID and draw odds went down most everywhere out west from 2020 to 2021 to 2022.
In 2021, there was the oddity that cannot be predicted in Wyoming Unit 95....the reason I said MOST above... more people put in for the Special (Higher Priced Tags) and it also took over 6 points in the Special Drawing to be 100% and at 6 points a person was only 15% to draw. You actually had a better chance to draw Unit 95 with 6 points on the Regular draw than you did in the Special draw...this is a very unsual thing in Wyoming but it happens here and there.
So the outfitters are playing Russian Roulette as to if they have a full camp or open spots when booking people that are close to where the draw hit the year before....and they will ALL...ALWAYS...want their hunters to be in the higher priced Special drawing. There is nothing unsual or underhanded about that. It is just reality.
In my case, I was putting in for Unit 98 with 8 points and the 3 years before, in the lower priced draw, 5 points was 100% in the lower priced drawing and 3/4 points was 100% to draw in the Special. It was obvious I would draw in either drawing so Todd agreed to put me in the Regular draw.
Some people would say "You wasted your points". For me, I wanted to hunt that year as it fit my schedule and budget and using my points meant that I could get the tag for approx $650 less...so to me I didn't "waste" my points...I used them to save appoximately $650 on my over all hunt cost.
Just like Mr. LRJ, I also got Todd's mid-summer letter and in the letter he mentioned that he limits his hunters on horseback hunts to a small daypack or fanny pack that can be hung over the saddle horn, not worn on the back for the reason listed in the post above...kidney damage to the horses. I was perfectly fine with that since I planned on a small daypack anyway.
As far as shooting, I go prone over my pack on longer shots. I go over a rock or log with my pack or rolled coat as a rest or leaning against a tree for shots inside 200 yards. I killed my first elk from kneeling position, 1 elbow on my knee at 80 yards. I am good sitting on my ass legs crossed (Indian style) with both elbows on my knees out to 200 yards. If I can't do any of that...I pass the shot and try to get closer. 95% of the guys that go elk hunting have not practiced taking shots from the kneeling and sitting positions. I don't carry any shooting aids, other than when Antelope hunting (much lower elevation, less steep country and always on foot not horseback). I have a bi-pod on my Speed Goat gun. Can't fit a bipod in a scabbard nor do I want to lug the extra weight in the mountains....hence me leaning to shoot without one in the mountains
I got to camp (great people) and just like LJR, I was told not to bring my daypack when hunting. I will admit, I was a bit surprised as I like to have one for a extra coat layer (Compressable down) when stopping to glass and a couple water bottles and as a rest in the right situations and the letter stated I could. After a SHORT and NOT HEATED discussion the guide saw the size pack I had (small) and I showed him I could hang it on the saddle horn, the guide said "Don't worry about it. Bring your pack if you want it". He had a fanny pack with knives etc. in it hanging on his saddle horn.
In the end, I shot my nice but not a whopper 6x5 bull, resting my gun on my pack over a large boulder..at FOURTY yards.
3 guys in the two camps shot bulls bigger than mine. A woman in camp wounded one that was a good one (unfortunately not recovered). They were there. I had a opportunity at a 300-310” class 6x6 bull opening morning but just could not get a shot I felt good about as he was behind some blowdown and never gave me the opporuntity. I still "woulda, coulda, shoulda" what we could have/should have done on that bull opening morning.
Would I hunt with Todd again. Yes. The camp, food and people were all great. The whole experience of being in a back country pack in elk camp was what I was looking for...and I got it. But I would hunt the season I hunted (Type 1 not General), in Unit 95 from one of his two wilderness camps there.. Problem is....I probably won't. Just because I have other hunts for Mule deer and elk in other states and I have other plans for my Wyoming Elk points when I get back to 4/5 points.
Sorry to hear LRJ was not happy with his hunt with Thomson. I was happy with my hunt with them.
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