This midwesterner is hunting alone in grizzly country

[grfox92]

Then it looks like in my pack trip guiding, dude wrangling, and packing days, when I was leading pack strings through the Two Ocean Pass and upper Yellowstone River areas, I wasn’t really camped in GRIZZLY COUNTRY, I was only camped in Grizzly country. And here’s me thinking I was. Ah well, such it is.

What years were you guiding those areas? Its a very different bear density right now than it was even 20 years ago.

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[3325]

What years were you guiding those areas? Its a very different bear density right now than it was even 20 years ago.

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‘90s. Bear density is definitely up. I’m seeing quite a bit of sign scouting in the south Absarokas north of Dubois this summer.

 

[grfox92]

‘90s. Bear density is definitely up. I’m seeing quite a bit of sign scouting in the south Absarokas north of Dubois this summer.

Yea man, I'm not trying to take anything away from your experience, but I bet if you went into those areas you used to guide in now, you would be blown away by the amount of bears that are there.

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[mntnguide]

Then it looks like in my pack trip guiding, dude wrangling, and packing days, when I was leading pack strings through the Two Ocean Pass and upper Yellowstone River areas, I wasn’t really camped in GRIZZLY COUNTRY, I was only camped in Grizzly country. And here’s me thinking I was. Ah well, such it is.

Who were you guiding for? I spent many years in the same areas, and have seen countless grizzlies. Pacific creek is almost a guarantee to have a bear on a carcass if you leave it overnight. In the summer time, Ive never had issues and rarely would see them because they are up high on tops of mountains etc, not in the valley around summer camps. But, I would say, Its a massive difference in bear numbers from the 90s to what it is today. . Dubois country is worse in my opinion, but Cody area is highest densities and numbers from what Ive experienced. I was up Horse creek area for opener last year, and had the pleasure of a sow and cubs in camp in the dark as we were leading horses to water, if it wasnt for the dogs, it would have been a very bad situation as it was a very tight drainage and she was 50ft away.

 

[3325]

Who were you guiding for?

Nelson Outfitters summer and fall of '90. Base camp was on Pacific Creek, hunting camp was in the Moss Lake area of the Teton Wilderness, we packed a lot around the Two Ocean Pass area. Old Bud Nelson was quite the crotchety old timer. He guided the last legal Grizzly kill in 1975 before they went on the endangered list. Years later he also killed a Grizzly at his hunting camp that had been causing problems around camp (with a Savage '99 .308 of all things). Funny thing is Bud ended up pleading guilty to animal cruelty and avoided the endangered species charge. I don't know what outfitter has Bud's old camps now. Bud passed away sometime in the late '90s.

Turpin Meadow Ranch summer and fall of '91 and '92. Great ranch location at the end of the Buffalo Valley Road. You didn't have to trailer horses; you could ride out of the ranch and go through Two Ocean Pass to the Yellowstone River, Hawks Rest, Thoroughfare, etc.

I spent many years in the same areas, and have seen countless grizzlies. Pacific creek is almost a guarantee to have a bear on a carcass if you leave it overnight. In the summer time, Ive never had issues and rarely would see them because they are up high on tops of mountains etc, not in the valley around summer camps. But, I would say, Its a massive difference in bear numbers from the 90s to what it is today. .

I still hunt Area 70. It was common to see bears and bear sign when I first started there in the '90s and I don't doubt there's more now. I've seen bears and bear sign in there frequently but have never had a hairy encounter. I figure it's a matter to time. I'm realistic about it.

Dubois country is worse in my opinion, but Cody area is highest densities and numbers from what Ive experienced. I was up Horse creek area for opener last year, and had the pleasure of a sow and cubs in camp in the dark as we were leading horses to water, if it wasnt for the dogs, it would have been a very bad situation as it was a very tight drainage and she was 50ft away.

Don't know about Cody, but I was scouting Area 67 up Horse Creek a few weeks ago and saw a sow and two cubs. Lots of sign too.

 

[wyogoat]

Yea man, I'm not trying to take anything away from your experience, but I bet if you went into those areas you used to guide in now, you would be blown away by the amount of bears that are there.

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You guys that are seeing increased g bear density now vs 20 years ago, what do you attribute that to?

 

[Tmcgarrigle]

You guys that are seeing increased g bear density now vs 20 years ago, what do you attribute that to?

Flat out more bears and more bears expanding range. I don't have to go back 20 years, just go back 5-10 years and the expanse and density is noticeable

 

[grfox92]

You guys that are seeing increased g bear density now vs 20 years ago, what do you attribute that to?

I wasn't seeing it. Ive only been here 5 years. Its what I'm told by the guides and long time locals.

What I can tell you is what I've seen since I've been here, and it's dealing with bears or them being around every single time you go out in the field. Year one and two we were charged both years. Year 3 we didn't lay eyes on a bear but there was tracks and shit everywhere we went including fresh tracks over our boot tracks from the morning. We also bumped one off a carcass in some dense timber at 25 yards, only heard him and smelled him.

Last season was the most mild for bears, in the spots we were hunting. Had the guy pictured below come by at 200 yards.

What I would attribute the increasing population too is every sow having 1 to 3 cubs a year and living for 30 years and no one killing any of them.

There are people who have lived in Cody their whole life and grew up hunting here, and a lot of them, now travel long distance to hunt to get away from the bears.

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[wyogoat]

I wasn't seeing it. Ive only been here 5 years. Its what I'm told by the guides and long time locals.

What I can tell you is what I've seen since I've been here, and it's dealing with bears or them being around every single time you go out in the field. Year one and two we were charged both years. Year 3 we didn't lay eyes on a bear but there was tracks and shit everywhere we went including fresh tracks over our boot tracks from the morning. We also bumped one off a carcass in some dense timber at 25 yards, only heard him and smelled him.

Last season was the most mild for bears, in the spots we were hunting. Had the guy pictured below come by at 200 yards.

What I would attribute the increasing population too is every sow having 1 to 3 cubs a year and living for 30 years and no one killing any of them.

There are people who have lived in Cody their whole life and grew up hunting here, and a lot of them, now travel long distance to hunt to get away from the bears.

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Thanks. That’s what i figured was the reason.

 

[grfox92]

Thanks. That’s what i figured was the reason.

Yea, the locals around here are screaming for a management plan. People won't even take their kids out hiking in most areas.

Last year they dropped 30+ trapped problem bears off, literally, at the trail heads me and everyone else hunts every year.

I just found out they dropped one off in the parking lot of one of our favorite mule deer areas for killing cows outside of town.

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[Dos Perros]

I'm not a local...but I attribute the growth to incredible fecundity. Every sow I've seen has 2 or 3 cubs. And I do think generally they are staying out of trouble. Certainly lots of bears die, hit by cars and then rarely killed by humans (self defense, poaching, or offing problem bears). But generally I think the land can support the bears and they are growing and they haven't found any sort of natural limiting factor yet.

 

[grfox92]

I'm not a local...but I attribute the growth to incredible fecundity. Every sow I've seen has 2 or 3 cubs. And I do think generally they are staying out of trouble. Certainly lots of bears die, hit by cars and then rarely killed by humans (self defense, poaching, or offing problem bears). But generally I think the land can support the bears and they are growing and they haven't found any sort of natural limiting factor yet.

This. We talked about it this past season in our sleeping bags one night at camp. Theres let's say 1000 sows in the GYE (definetly more) a sow has 1 to 3 cubs a year. To take out mortality let's say 1 cub a year. Every year for say 25 years. 1000 new bears a year. Its out of control.

One thing I will say is they dont publicize the amount of bears that get trapped and killed every year let alone the ones that get killed in self defense. I always thought those stories made the news. They dont in WY. They seem to keep it a big secret. Id say 75 a year are killed by hunters in self defense and Game and Fish eliminating problem bears.

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[mntnguide]

As much as we all want a season on grizzlies... EVEN if it happens, I personally dont believe it will impact the bears one single bit. When we did get a season few years ago that got stopped by the court right before it opened, it was like what, 12 tags? Thats not gonna do a damn thing for 99% of the bears. Its a feel good feeling to say we need a hunting season, cause in reality, thats not going to change these bears and their habits or population one bit. The good thing would be getting them off endangered list, so you are not facing a federal offense for possibly defending yourself. And EVERY game warden I know or dealt with in Western WY along with biologists understand the current landscape, and wish there were far less bears as well.

Reality is grizzly issues will stay relevant and something someone must take into account when hunting these type of areas. I had a sow and 3 cubs destroy my archery camp 3 falls ago. I still slept in that camp that night, and hunted there all september. Big bulls are worth the risk for me. I had no food or anything in camp, it was just cubs being cubs and destroyed my stuff. But I did tie my horses much closer to my tent the next few nights thats for sure

 

[grfox92]

As much as we all want a season on grizzlies... EVEN if it happens, I personally dont believe it will impact the bears one single bit. When we did get a season few years ago that got stopped by the court right before it opened, it was like what, 12 tags? Thats not gonna do a damn thing for 99% of the bears. Its a feel good feeling to say we need a hunting season, cause in reality, thats not going to change these bears and their habits or population one bit. The good thing would be getting them off endangered list, so you are not facing a federal offense for possibly defending yourself. And EVERY game warden I know or dealt with in Western WY along with biologists understand the current landscape, and wish there were far less bears as well

Yup. Like I said above, I believe it was about 75 bears killed last year. I could be wrong, but that's the number i remember. So even if there was a season, they are already killing way more bears than a season would give us.

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[Dos Perros]

This has mortality figures for GYE 2015-2024. The data is for sure interesting. Bears don't die being bears, they die when they intersect with humans. I'll see if I can slice and dice the data here real quick...

Documented known and probable grizzly bear mortalities in the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem, 2015-2024 (ver. 4.0 May 2025)

The Interagency Grizzly Bear Study Team (IGBST) evaluates mortalities for population segments within the DMA by deriving estimates of total mortality for independent-age (2 years or older) females and independent-age males, including estimates of unknown/unreported mortalities based on Cherry et...

www.usgs.gov

 

[grfox92]

This has mortality figures for GYE 2015-2024. The data is for sure interesting. Bears don't die being bears, they die when they intersect with humans. I'll see if I can slice and dice the data here real quick...

Documented known and probable grizzly bear mortalities in the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem, 2015-2024 (ver. 4.0 May 2025)

The Interagency Grizzly Bear Study Team (IGBST) evaluates mortalities for population segments within the DMA by deriving estimates of total mortality for independent-age (2 years or older) females and independent-age males, including estimates of unknown/unreported mortalities based on Cherry et...

www.usgs.gov

I can't open it on my phone, does it give a total for each year? Nevermind, found it.

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Disregard. AI found it. So it was 70ish.

 

[Dos Perros]

Looks like the GYE is averaging 58 bear deaths 2015-2024 and the trend appears to be flat over that time. I suppose that somewhat indicates a stable population level (not growth).

Of the known deaths (505), 437 of them (86.5%) are human caused (management, self defense, vehicle, etc), 29 (5.7%) are natural, and the balance under investigation or undetermined.

Here are the locations of the most deaths:
South Fork Shoshone River - private land
Greybull River - private land
Heart Mountain Canal - private land
Clarks Fork Yellowstone - private land
Henry's Fork Idaho
Wagon Creek Wyoming
Yellowstone River Montana - private land

 

[grfox92]

Looks like the GYE is averaging 58 bear deaths 2015-2024 and the trend appears to be flat over that time. I suppose that somewhat indicates a stable population level (not growth).

Of the known deaths (505), 437 of them (86.5%) are human caused (management, self defense, vehicle, etc), 29 (5.7%) are natural, and the balance under investigation or undetermined.

Here are the locations of the most deaths:
South Fork Shoshone River - private land
Greybull River - private land
Heart Mountain Canal - private land
Clarks Fork Yellowstone - private land
Henry's Fork Idaho
Wagon Creek Wyoming
Yellowstone River Montana - private land

The ones on Hart Mountain canal are drowning by going into the irrigation canal and not being able to get back out. I think 4 died there last year.

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[Dos Perros]

The ones on Hart Mountain canal are drowning by going into the irrigation canal and not being able to get back out. I think 4 died there last year.

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Yup, 10 drownings in Heart all listed in the table. Funnily enough only 2 other listed drownings in all other places.

 

[grfox92]

Yup, 10 drownings in Heart all listed in the table. Funnily enough only 2 other listed drownings in all other places.

Ill post a picture of the canal next time im out that way.

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