Thinking of offering packing services

[spike camp]

But I’m not guiding, just packing in equipment. I know a few people that do it without a license. It’s different if I’m packing in hunters, or guiding, but I’m just packing in gear. I’ll look into that, but I’m pretty sure I don’t.

I don't know about NM but in CO it is a FELONY to "provide outfitting services without proper registration".

Exactly my thoughts.

 

[justinspicher]

I’ve often thought about doing this, but then I realize I’d probably be working when I wanted to be hunting so I opted out.

 

[diesel7]

I’ve often thought about doing this, but then I realize I’d probably be working when I wanted to be hunting so I opted out.

Well that was my issue, but I may not be putting in for elk anymore, after this year anyway. It ties me up for other things. I have a friend that’s wanting me to possibly start guiding too. So maybe with that, and what I’m thinking of doing with these pack ins, I’ll be more than busy enough! Trying to find other options.

 

[diesel7]

I inquired about providing pack services in Idaho. It requires a guides license and operating under an established guide or becoming a new outfitter (which requires proving that there was a demand and putting out a prospectus to other interested parties). The forest service is an idiotic organization with their red tape.

None of the outfitters in the area provide pack services--they're all exclusively chasing fully outfitted hunts.

That’s why I think there is a market for this, no one offers services like this! I’ll be getting my guide license, and if I have to, I’ll work under a local outfitter till I can get my own !


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[theleo91386]

That’s why I think there is a market for this, no one offers services like this! I’ll be getting my guide license, and if I have to, I’ll work under a local outfitter till I can get my own !


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If there's a local outfitter that wants to have that sort of opperation available in their area. They may want to be limiting the amount of people in the area they're already packing and guiding outfitted hunters in.

 

[diesel7]

If there's a local outfitter that wants to have that sort of opperation available in their area. They may want to be limiting the amount of people in the area they're already packing and guiding outfitted hunters in.

Possibly, but I don’t have to be where he is, the gila is a big area!! But I can work off his license.


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[Elite7]

I don't live out west but make at least one hunting trip out there every year. I think the demand for packing services will keep rising due to hunter applications increasing in western states even though the overall number of hunters in the US is declining.

Land in getting leased for high $$ in the east and midwest. The wealthy are buying hobby farms and decking them out with food plots to hunt for a couple weekends a year. Access is getting very tough. It doesn't take someone very long to realize they could be hunting public land elk out west every year for the same cost they are leasing whitetail properties.

Technology has now made it pretty easy for guys to understand the drawing and tag options out west. It has also made it pretty easy to scout online and have confidence you won't be trespassing.

I think packing services or llama/ goat rentals will be the next big thing. I know that if my buddies and I only have a week to hunt and someone kills an elk the first/ second day. $500 to have someone come pack that elk out and enable us to hunt sooner would be a no brainer.

 

[Beendare]

Hopefully I’ll be able to get this going! I think it could be a good thing!!

Well good luck.

I can tell you from my experience guiding, it can take the fun out of hunting...it did to me for awhile.

Then if you are only getting paid a fraction of what a guide gets to put up with all of the BS.... If all hunters were as good and organized as the majority of guys here....you won't have a problem. I would think most guys will be pretty happy to see you ride up....so you got that going for you.

But that won't always be the case. You will show up to all kinds of surprises; carcasses that are half rotten.....or not completely finished and ready.

I would say this; Get payment first before you do anything. Then at least if you get a rash of shit you have more options.

 

[theleo91386]

Possibly, but I don’t have to be where he is, the gila is a big area!! But I can work off his license.


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Odds are if the hunting is good in an area there will be an outfitter working around there. If you step on his toes he's likely not going to like it and will have a discussion with whoever license you are working under. They are people to, and just as likely to to step on your toes when they get their chance.

 

[diesel7]

Odds are if the hunting is good in an area there will be an outfitter working around there. If you step on his toes he's likely not going to like it and will have a discussion with whoever license you are working under. They are people to, and just as likely to to step on your toes when they get their chance.

That’s understandable! But they don’t own the forest regardless of how much money they have! I’ve seen those guys! And I won’t play nice if they get an attitude! We run into them everywhere, and they can be extremely rude sometimes, we just move on and stay away!


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[Bulldawg]

I think what he’s getting at is the way these permits work is you get your own little chunk of space you’re allowed to work in, not an entire unit or wilderness area. Depending on where you are they typically don’t allow much overlap in where these Outfitters work. They are also not handing out permits to anybody who goes and gets the necessary licensing/insurance and are not issuing any more use days for the areas. I hope you can get something going and can make some side cash. I strongly recommend going to the forest service station and talking to their special use person there about what it is you might be able to do.

Unfortunately in my experience the forest service does not operate in a very capitalistic manner, it’s not like you can go in and offer excellent service and build from the ground up, I really wish there was something to do about it but there just isn’t. That is why there isn’t a lot of pack services around, because there is a lot of red tape and when you think you can get through it all they just say no.

Good luck bud


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[diesel7]

Well good luck.

I can tell you from my experience guiding, it can take the fun out of hunting...it did to me for awhile.

Then if you are only getting paid a fraction of what a guide gets to put up with all of the BS.... If all hunters were as good and organized as the majority of guys here....you won't have a problem. I would think most guys will be pretty happy to see you ride up....so you got that going for you.

But that won't always be the case. You will show up to all kinds of surprises; carcasses that are half rotten.....or not completely finished and ready.

I would say this; Get payment first before you do anything. Then at least if you get a rash of shit you have more options.

There’s a bunch of things like this that I haven’t even thought about. I have run into a few dumb asses, that have no clue what they’re doing, don’t know how to break down and quarter an elk! It surprised me!! Most are lucky to be able to find their way back to camp at the end of the day it seems.

 

[diesel7]

I think what he’s getting at is the way these permits work is you get your own little chunk of space you’re allowed to work in, not an entire unit or wilderness area. Depending on where you are they typically don’t allow much overlap in where these Outfitters work. They are also not handing out permits to anybody who goes and gets the necessary licensing/insurance and are not issuing any more use days for the areas. I hope you can get something going and can make some side cash. I strongly recommend going to the forest service station and talking to their special use person there about what it is you might be able to do.

Unfortunately in my experience the forest service does not operate in a very capitalistic manner, it’s not like you can go in and offer excellent service and build from the ground up, I really wish there was something to do about it but there just isn’t. That is why there isn’t a lot of pack services around, because there is a lot of red tape and when you think you can get through it all they just say no.

Good luck bud


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Thanks man. I have a lot to learn and figure out still.

 

[Bubblehide]

I can't speak for other states, but here in Ca, an packer/outfitter is assigned an are exclusive to them (just like everywhere else). They have assigned campsites, so if someone is occupying the site, the packer has a legal right to kick them out so their party can occupy it. The packers/outfitters also maintain most of the trails they use in their areas (part necessity). In short, they not only provide a service, they have some responsibilities. The packers that operate along the Pacific Crest Trail have the perk of packing supplies for all the foot traffic/backpackers. I say perk because they get lots of business from them, it helps pay the bills. But like others have said, I would not expect much opportunity for an outfitters license. In one area I hunt, the outfitter brings in a party, and moves the animals to another area, and they stay there and hunt until they pack out their clients. So in short, depending on the length of time clients want to stay and hunt, there can be opportunity to hunt while providing services to others.

 

[cbat]

Bulldawg is spot on

 

[squirrel]

The reason nobody does it is it doesn't work. Bulldawg nailed most of it in his post. There is huge demand for what you want to do, pack hunters and their gear back in and afterwards everything they have backout (gear animals etc.) But if you wish to do this on public land it is tightly controlled, and as stated above can be a felony if violations occur depending on the state. The system is in place you have to work within it and it is not in your favor. I was going to get a "meat packing only " permit and found if my clients threw on a jacket on top of the loaded llama I would be in violation... having the gov't as a business partner isn't pretty, and the reason registered guides /outfitters don't provide the service is the pain in the ass factor outweighs the proffit factor

Lots of people do it illegally, if both parties are happy not much chance of getting caught, but let someone think they got the shaft and the squealing starts.

 

[diesel7]

That’s some crap huh!!! Government steps into everything and ruins it.


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[spike camp]

That’s some crap huh!!! Government steps into everything and ruins it.


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In this particular set of circumstances, the feds step in...so something doesn’t get ruined.
Otherwise, there would be 1000 dudes just like you, and it would be an absolute shitshow(no offense intended and just my opinion).

 

[diesel7]

Not to sure about that. It’s a lot of work that most people aren’t willing to even do! It’s not like it’s a simple walk in the park. Just buying the animals, and tack is enough. Yet alone feeding and boarding the animals, transportation, truck maintenance! You name it! That’s reason enough to keep a lot of people from doing this!


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[spike camp]

Well, like squirrel said...lots of people doing it illegally (and it’s a felony in some states).
The reward must be there, if so many are willing to take the risk.