WTS/WTT Things to watch out for to prevent being scammed.

gearjunkie

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As most of you know scams are rampant on Craigslist and other sites. Less likely here but it happened to me. Here are some major points I have learned along the way.

1. Check the users history on the site before agreeing to purchase anything. If they signed up for membership very recently and messaged you privately that they have the item you are looking for be very careful. Especially if they show no other activity on the site.

2. If they refer you to someone else to purchase the item through who is not a member of the site, ie "contact this individual at this email address ______________" should raise red flags.

3. Look at the wording the individual uses. Yes is it possible that someone who does not speak english as a first language is completely legit unfortunately many times they are not. Many scammers throw in the words like "kindly" to seem friendly in strange places that really make no sense. The following is an excerpt from a message I received from this scammer "Okay a notification from Paypal will be sent to you kindly click yes on the notification to complete your payment. This is to ensure that you have successfully made your payment to me so in order to have them shipped to your location. Kindly let me know when you have received it and clicked it."

Recent example. I posted I was looking for a used Rem7600. An individual messaged me said to contact him at his email address. First red flag. Member history, Rokslide was unable to find the member so he had already deactivated his account this was a huge red flag. I continued to play along. He sent me pictures of a model 7600 and a good description of the rifle that made sense from a gun owners perspective. I asked him how he would like payment. He requested Paypal friends and family, another red flag. At this point it was obvious he had copied a for sale ad from another site. I asked him to prove that he had the rifle in his possession. So he sends me a picture with the rifle and a handwritten card with his name the date and the rifle details. This threw me for a loop was this legit? So I zoomed in really close on the picture. He had used photoshop or something to insert the card into the picture only by zooming in did i see that the card seemed to be floating off the carpet and had weird shadows. At this point I called him out. He called me judgemental which was strange. Then he sent me a picture of an actual Montana drivers license with a name that matched what he was calling himself. Not only was the Friends and family a red flag. He sent me a link so someone else's account to pay through paypal and it was a donation link. To summarize I am well versed in scams ect... being a Police Officer. This guy had me second guessing even after being relatively sure it was a scam! They are getting progressively more slick! Oh and I already have another message in my inbox about a rifle from a new user.

4. They ask for steps that are foreign to you compared to past transactions. This individual asked for a screen shot of my payment confirmation. They also insisted that they would send a notification to me through paypal to confirm the payment. This step does not exist in Paypal.

5. Scammers are getting very sneaky and use American names and emails.

Im sure most of this was covered already but go into each transaction with caution and do not send cash, check, or money order to anyone unless you personally know them. Do not use friends and family in Paypal unless you personally know them.
 

SteveCNJ

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I've been online shopping for primers. I think I found 4 or 5 scam websites already. If they want you to pay by Venmo or giftcard and even bitcoin it's a scam for sure. They also have plenty of product in stock when nobody else does. Lastly I looked up an address for one that seemed pretty convincing. A little old house that had been listed for sale came up for the address the business listed.

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bsnedeker

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I've been online shopping for primers. I think I found 4 or 5 scam websites already. If they want you to pay by Venmo or giftcard and even bitcoin it's a scam for sure. They also have plenty of product in stock when nobody else does. Lastly I looked up an address for one that seemed pretty convincing. A little old house that had been listed for sale came up for the address the business listed.

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Your first clue that they are a scam is that they have primers!
 
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Fyi PayPal will not offer any protection of firearms or related parts anywho. Most likely they will actually lock your account and keep whatever funds you have in there.
 
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What do you think will happen when those same scammers read your thread?

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I agree - just teaching the scammers.

Teaching them what exactly? Are they going to start asking for payment through goods and services because this thread has shown them we are on to the F&F, venmo, cripto and gift card requests? If we were teaching them something wouldnt they have stopped directing buyers to their "friends" email by now? Maybe they would not still be using poor grammer and photo shopped pictures you can find with a reverse look up? People have been posting scam warnings with examples for years and yet scammers are all still using the same BS to scam people. Posts like this only help the people that have not had much experience buying online be a little more cautious.
 

realunlucky

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Teaching them what exactly? Are they going to start asking for payment through goods and services because this thread has shown them we are on to the F&F, venmo, cripto and gift card requests? If we were teaching them something wouldnt they have stopped directing buyers to their "friends" email by now? Maybe they would not still be using poor grammer and photo shopped pictures you can find with a reverse look up? People have been posting scam warnings with examples for years and yet scammers are all still using the same BS to scam people. Posts like this only help the people that have not had much experience buying online be a little more cautious.
If it's the same old song and dance why is there a need to say anything at all?

The scammers are adapting and improving all the time. Yes they are learning what the tell tell signs are and fore going them in their latest and greatest. That's why even the smartest people can still get swindled from time to time.
 
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gearjunkie

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What do you think will happen when those same scammers read your thread?

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That was brought up in another forum. But if caution is adhered to you are ahead of the game. No matter what they do if you strictly use known protected ways of paying you should be protected. A lot of people are still completely unaware of what goes on. The thread itself could be a deterrent to go find easier picking.
 
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gearjunkie

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If it's the same old song and dance why is there a need to say anything at all?

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This is incredibly selfish. For a lot of people
it's not the same song and dance. Being educated is better than hoping. Maintaining the Status Quo and allowing these scammers to target unknowing fellow hunters is not the answer. Just because you know what a scammer is doesn't mean other people do. There is only so much they can do to get your money. They become more sneaky but still have to pursue the same avenues to get unprotected money. Avoiding those avenues stops the scam.
 

MightyMatt

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As most of you know scams are rampant on Craigslist and other sites. Less likely here but it happened to me. Here are some major points I have learned along the way.

1. Check the users history on the site before agreeing to purchase anything. If they signed up for membership very recently and messaged you privately that they have the item you are looking for be very careful. Especially if they show no other activity on the site.

2. If they refer you to someone else to purchase the item through who is not a member of the site, ie "contact this individual at this email address ______________" should raise red flags.

3. Look at the wording the individual uses. Yes is it possible that someone who does not speak english as a first language is completely legit unfortunately many times they are not. Many scammers throw in the words like "kindly" to seem friendly in strange places that really make no sense. The following is an excerpt from a message I received from this scammer "Okay a notification from Paypal will be sent to you kindly click yes on the notification to complete your payment. This is to ensure that you have successfully made your payment to me so in order to have them shipped to your location. Kindly let me know when you have received it and clicked it."

Recent example. I posted I was looking for a used Rem7600. An individual messaged me said to contact him at his email address. First red flag. Member history, Rokslide was unable to find the member so he had already deactivated his account this was a huge red flag. I continued to play along. He sent me pictures of a model 7600 and a good description of the rifle that made sense from a gun owners perspective. I asked him how he would like payment. He requested Paypal friends and family, another red flag. At this point it was obvious he had copied a for sale ad from another site. I asked him to prove that he had the rifle in his possession. So he sends me a picture with the rifle and a handwritten card with his name the date and the rifle details. This threw me for a loop was this legit? So I zoomed in really close on the picture. He had used photoshop or something to insert the card into the picture only by zooming in did i see that the card seemed to be floating off the carpet and had weird shadows. At this point I called him out. He called me judgemental which was strange. Then he sent me a picture of an actual Montana drivers license with a name that matched what he was calling himself. Not only was the Friends and family a red flag. He sent me a link so someone else's account to pay through paypal and it was a donation link. To summarize I am well versed in scams ect... being a Police Officer. This guy had me second guessing even after being relatively sure it was a scam! They are getting progressively more slick! Oh and I already have another message in my inbox about a rifle from a new user.

4. They ask for steps that are foreign to you compared to past transactions. This individual asked for a screen shot of my payment confirmation. They also insisted that they would send a notification to me through paypal to confirm the payment. This step does not exist in Paypal.

5. Scammers are getting very sneaky and use American names and emails.

Im sure most of this was covered already but go into each transaction with caution and do not send cash, check, or money order to anyone unless you personally know them. Do not use friends and family in Paypal unless you personally know them.
gearjunkie, I used to shop Armslist a lot until the scammers took over. I would have more scammers contacting me to "see if the item is still for sale?" Than actual firearm enthusiasts. Being in law enforcement do you know if there is any felony charges that could be pursued shadings these individuals for firearm related scammers? Is there any branch that pursues these individuals and could really hammer them hard? I don't know, like maybe the BATF could spend time trying to catch these criminals rather than trying to infringe on law bidding gun owners? I really don't know. I have pretty much just resorted to selling face to face when it comes to guns. I want records for myself to cover that I have done everything legally just incase the gun shows up in a crime. Unfortunately it's the only way I know how to go about it. That and if I have any reservations about the individual I simply ask that they meet me at the local sheriff's department for the transaction. I've had close to half a dozen "buyers" drop of the face of the earth after asking them to meet there... just a thought. You can usually get a feel for who you are dealing with by simply speaking with them on the phone a couple times. Nothing is fool proof but every little bit helps. Most legit guys will understand what you are doing and typically won't mind. It also gives them peace of mind being crooks are not going to want to meet at the sheriff's department.
 
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gearjunkie

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gearjunkie, I used to shop Armslist a lot until the scammers took over. I would have more scammers contacting me to "see if the item is still for sale?" Than actual firearm enthusiasts. Being in law enforcement do you know if there is any felony charges that could be pursued shadings these individuals for firearm related scammers? Is there any branch that pursues these individuals and could really hammer them hard? I don't know, like maybe the BATF could spend time trying to catch these criminals rather than trying to infringe on law bidding gun owners? I really don't know. I have pretty much just resorted to selling face to face when it comes to guns. I want records for myself to cover that I have done everything legally just incase the gun shows up in a crime. Unfortunately it's the only way I know how to go about it. That and if I have any reservations about the individual I simply ask that they meet me at the local sheriff's department for the transaction. I've had close to half a dozen "buyers" drop of the face of the earth after asking them to meet there... just a thought. You can usually get a feel for who you are dealing with by simply speaking with them on the phone a couple times. Nothing is fool proof but every little bit helps. Most legit guys will understand what you are doing and typically won't mind. It also gives them peace of mind being crooks are not going to want to meet at the sheriff's department.
I know it seems law enforcement is busy infringing on gun owners rights, unfortunately for us we did not make the laws. Most of the time these "laws" get enforced when it is a must do and not the choice of the officer. In the current climate of this nation finding well suited individuals to even become Police Officers is getting harder and harder. They face a justice system that will not render punishment for all but the worst offenders, are tasked with wearing way too many hats, are understaffed, most states are cutting retirement benefits, union or not just doing your job in certain circumstances can result in the loss of years of work and your retirement. So to answer you question for there to be extra enforcement to try and stem this fraudulent buying and scamming? You wont see a nationwide concerted effort because it just isn't possible. There may be some task forces here and there on the federal level. Also at any point and time if one of these individuals happens to become a person of interest in a crime they will likely be apprehended due to surveillance.
 

MightyMatt

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Gearjunkie, I'm not in any way, shape or form bad mouthing law enforcement officers. I respect and appreciate what you guys do every day and support our officers in every way possible. I'm just saying that being guns are involved I would think it would be a felony and be of higher interest than a seat belt ticket. I, as well as probably 99.9% of guys on here are not the ones wanting to eliminate law enforcement. I believe we are the good guys backing you guys. Like in anything there will always be a bad one in the bunch but I believe most of our law enforcement has our best interests in mind. I understand your hands are tied in some instances but I was just trying to convey that there should be some branch with higher interest in these kinds of crimes.
Thanks, matt
 
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