The slow barrel tikka dilemma

[HNTR_NW]

I’m not seeing 1800fps at 1000yds in your future, unless you find some crazy magic in that thing some how. Caveat being you live north of 10k feet DA.

I’m at 9500 and would need 3000fps+ to reach 1800fps @1000yds. (I use 143s)

That’s a tall order for PRC on the assumption you are lower and with a 22” barrel.

Assuming your Christensen is a bit longer?

(Edit: ran #s for the 147s @ 2900….that will be pretty close. That’s still asking a lot from a 22” barrel but doable probably).

(Double edit: now I’m on a rant because it pisses me off how Hornady advertises/markets the 6.5PRC. Their load data is based on a 26” barrel (hardly anything else in the manual is that long) to give the perception it is faster than it is. I’ve also seen/felt their factory ammo is faster than anyone shoots….BL I think this PRC underperforms).

With a 24” barrel it’s doable. At least under most conditions that I hunt in. This is with 2910fps MV. With the 147s. I think this is more of a me being ocd problem

The 156bergers have 1800fps a ways out, but I don’t have any experience with them under 2kfps. My go to has been the ELDM or ELDXs. They have served me well on elk and deer in that particular velocity window.

 

[skipper907]

I have a dilemma and decent amount of time on my hands so I figured I’d see what Rokslide thinks.

I have a Tikka t3x lite 6.5PRC initially I chopped the barrel down to 22” and threaded it. When I chrono’d it through the garmin (10 shots) the results were as follows.

UM 156 Berger 2850fps
Hornady 143 factory 2730fps
Hornady 147 factory 2708fps

With the exception of the UM AMMO, it’s SLOW.

I then shot the ammo through a Christensen and it matched the box pretty close, within 20fps.

I then bought 2 tikka takeoff barrels, spun them up and shot each today. The velocity of the tikka barrels were all slow, almost matching the original factory barrel.

Why does this bother me? Mainly because I have plenty of 6.5cm ammo and rifles, and I wanted to gain the extra 200yds of terminal performance.

My questions:

Are all tikkas this slow with 6.5prc?

Should I just suck it up and get a proof or an Ace barrel and roll the dice that it will produce somewhat normal velocities?

Or I can buy more powder, pull all my factory ammo and maybe build a load to get me in the 2900’s with the 147s….

What do you guys think?

Thanks!

Sounds like you have slow ammo not a slow barrel
you need to ether buy UM loaded ammo or start loading your own ammo to get the magic speed you want

 

[grfox92]

I have never had speed limit my terminal velocity, so it's something I dont even think about.

My Tikka 6.5cm with a 20" ctr barrel sends 140s out at 2600, at factory OAL with 40.0 grains of 4350. The gun shoots lights out. I have never even attempted to tweak the load in any way shape or form, because there is zero need in my eyes. I could probably get another 100fps. What for though?

Sent from my SM-S931U using Tapatalk

 

[Smithb9841]

Maybe I missed it but how many rounds have you put through the barrel? If it’s a new barrel it will speed up.

 

[HNTR_NW]

I have never had speed limit my terminal velocity, so it's something I dont even think about.

My Tikka 6.5cm with a 20" ctr barrel sends 140s out at 2600, at factory OAL with 40.0 grains of 4350. The gun shoots lights out. I have never even attempted to tweak the load in any way shape or form, because there is zero need in my eyes. I could probably get another 100fps. What for though?

Sent from my SM-S931U using Tapatalk

Fair enough, I think I just like to tinker. Probably to a fault!

 

[grfox92]

Fair enough, I think I just like to tinker. Probably to a fault!

I used to like to tinker too, see what minor changes will do to the system. Then I realized I was spending so much time and energy on something that at the end of the day, didn't really matter (to me). If the gun didn't shoot great I would definetly tinker. But if it drives tacks, and is lethal out to my maximum hunting range, I dont touch it.

I also have 4 kids and have to prioritize my time haha.

Sent from my SM-S931U using Tapatalk

 

[eamyrick]

My Tikka 30-06 is the most acccurate rifle I’ve ever owned and it is slow. With factory 178 Eld-x it’s at 2650. I plan to try some Buffalo bore options as I had great luck with them out of my 30-06 fieldcraft.

 

[streamerfish]

I've heard this a few times (tikka barrels slow).

Has anyone done any side by side testing on it? Like exact same load in multiple guns and a tikka of the same barrel length and chrono'd??

 

[Smokinyotes]

I've heard this a few times (tikka barrels slow).

Has anyone done any side by side testing on it? Like exact same load in multiple guns and a tikka of the same barrel length and chrono'd??

I had a c/a Mesa in 6.5 PRC. With 55 gr of R26 and a 143 gr ELDX I was getting 3020fps. The same load in my Tikka CTR 6.5 prc I was getting 2809.
To get the same velocity with the Tikka as the C/A required me to go 3 more grains of powder.

 

[Tahoe1305]

I have 3x tikka OEM barrels. All different contours but same length. Same loads produce very similar velocity.

Had a proof CF barrel for the gun. It was faster.

Only difference between the two was the throats on the tikka are loaded for 2.950” ish land touching.

The proof closer to SAAMI at 2.88” or so.

 

[BAKPAKR]

My Tikka 30-06 is the most acccurate rifle I’ve ever owned and it is slow. With factory 178 Eld-x it’s at 2650. I plan to try some Buffalo bore options as I had great luck with them out of my 30-06 fieldcraft.

That is slow. I was getting that velocity with 210 Bergers in a 24” Remington 700 in 30-06.

 

[JF_Idaho]

Hornady ammo is all over the place. I posted a while back I had some precision hunter 6.5cm 143gr that were 140fps avg difference between 2 lots.

More recently had some 6.5prc 147 boxes that averaged 2740 out of a 24" seekins. Different lot got me 2830.

Slow lot of ammo and a slower barrel can be ridiculous.

 

[freezerfull]

Chronoing 6.5 prc loads recently in 2 factory tikka barrels, 1 proof and 1 benchmark all 24” long. Both tikka barrels ran almost exactly the same average velocities. Tikkas were 100-150 fps slower than the proof and benchmark depending on load. 127 lrx was ~110fps slower, 140 VLD was ~100 fps slower, 143 factory bondstrike was ~150 fps and 156 eh was around 100 fps slower in the tikkas.

At one time I had a 6.5 creed T3x with a 24” barrel. The tikka ran my 140gr VLD load 2550 ish, the same load in a 24” benchmark in the same temperature/conditions ran 2730. That’s the slowest tikka barrel I’ve ran across.

I pretty much figure 100 fps less at the same barrel length for most tikkas. For some reason .308 bore tikkas don’t seem to have quite as big a discrepancy, but still generally a touch slower.

Edit to add. Fully agree with Tahoe, the cause is generous (but concentric) chambers. Headspace is generally spot on but the chambers are fat, including the neck. Without even measuring I’ve compared fired cases from tikkas to others and can see the size difference with the eye. My wife’s .243 splits necks on brass like it’s going out of style. Lucky to get 3 loads of it. Still beats Remington factory QC where occasionally you get a rifle that produces fired cases resembling a pear shape.

 

[Escalante11]

My 20” Element M3 6.5 PRC barrel runs 10-20” FPS faster on average than my buddy’s 22” T3x Superlite Gen 2 6.5 PRC when we train together.. Same day, same ammo, same chrono, same range, roughly similar round counts on both barrels. Sure does piss him off always

Both my personal tikkas are bothersome slow as well unfortunately. Good action/trigger but a bit less desirable everywhere else, for me at least.

 

[Tahoe1305]

I’ve pasted this a ton of places on here, but the “weakness” folks are complaining about with the tikka is only with factory loads.

If you handloads it turns into a strength. You’ll gain more velocity than other barrels of equal length BECAUSE you can load it longer than SAAMI (essentially wildcatting).

Litz article that discusses it in detail. I’ve had great results with my 6.5C tikka OEM barrels. Essentially splits the difference well between normal 6.5C and 6.5PRC with powder and velocity.

My 6.5C (24”) runs 2900fps 1g below pressure signs loaded out to 2.98” or so. QL validates the data as well.

Measuring Cartridge Overall Length (COAL) and Cartridge Base to Bullet Ogive (CBTO)

This article covers the importance of knowing your Cartridge Overall Length (COAL) and Cartridge Base to Bullet Ogive (CBTO) when reloading.

bergerbullets.com

 

[Smokinyotes]

Yes on some cartridges, they can be loaded significantly longer than Sammi specs but if you are using a long action cartridge you are limited to mag length of 3.340”

 

[NorthIdahoDude]

I’ve never seen a Tikka yet that wasn’t slow, doesn’t matter which cartridge they are all slow. The good news is if you handload you can add more powder.

Yup. Long throats. My old 308 was .25 inches of jump seated max mag length (that's not a typo, 1/4 of an inch jump).

 

[Castle Rock]

Tikkas and Sauers run really slow , generally due to the long throating, just the way they are.
Maybe due to CIP specs.
If you think a tikka PRC is slow try a CM, you could walk faster.
Good news is you can load longer and faster.

 

[freezerfull]

Long throats are not the only reason for slower velocities in tikkas, well maybe with some factory ammo. Long throats can be an advantage, allowing more powder volume without overpressure (if the rifle action length and magazine allows it). But even comparing different barrels with very similar throat lengths the tikkas are slower. That could probably be helped by neck sizing rifle dedicated brass. I have tried ramping up charges and generally will pressure out in a tikka before I can attain velocities achieved by other barrels with tighter chambers yet similar throat length (same jump to lands).

 

[mt100gr.]

I’ve pasted this a ton of places on here, but the “weakness” folks are complaining about with the tikka is only with factory loads.

If you handloads it turns into a strength. You’ll gain more velocity than other barrels of equal length BECAUSE you can load it longer than SAAMI (essentially wildcatting).

Litz article that discusses it in detail. I’ve had great results with my 6.5C tikka OEM barrels. Essentially splits the difference well between normal 6.5C and 6.5PRC with powder and velocity.

My 6.5C (24”) runs 2900fps 1g below pressure signs loaded out to 2.98” or so. QL validates the data as well.

Measuring Cartridge Overall Length (COAL) and Cartridge Base to Bullet Ogive (CBTO)

This article covers the importance of knowing your Cartridge Overall Length (COAL) and Cartridge Base to Bullet Ogive (CBTO) when reloading.

bergerbullets.com

This!! Handloading the Tikkas can almost reverse the so-called weakness.

I have a 6.5cm OEM superlite barrel that I cut to 18 inches. With RL26 I settled on a load shooting the 147 ELDM very well at 2745fps.