The Shoot2hunt Podcast

[realunlucky]

I hear you. But I think his point was if you don't hit it in the brain, it won't really matter if it's a 22mag, a 10mm, or a 300wm, it will still kill you if it wants to. And you can probably be faster and more accurate with the 22mag than the 10mm.

But they typically don't kill you just maul you for awhile. So you don't hit it in the CNS so your for sure getting torn up.

Later when you start moving around again, they'll come back and pounce on you a couple more times.

Question is does bigger caliber hits to the body encourage the bear to depart after the initial attack more than smaller ones?





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[jonpall]

But they typically don't kill you just maul you for awhile. So you don't hit it in the CNS so your for sure getting torn up.

Later when you start moving around again, they'll come back and pounce on you a couple more times.

Question is does bigger caliber hits to the body encourage the bear to depart after the initial attack more than smaller ones?





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Good questions that I've thought of as well. It's been a while since I've looked at what most commonly happens during these attacks so I don't know the answer.

 

[left hunter]

Love the podcast even if I do find myself screaming at Jake through my phone more often than I should admit

 

[Gravel Road]

22 mag or 10mm on this guy and you only have two seconds to get one in his skull !
This is what you are debating about.
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View attachment 694011
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1. That's a big brown bear, not a grizzly
2. A 10mm won't feel like a stopper

 

[Formidilosus]

but he would recommend a 22 mag for protection.

I didn’t recommend anything. If you believe I did, I would suggest to relisten.

 

[roosiebull]

I have been wondering that.
Am I the only guy that opens the bolt, ejects the round.
Then puts it back in the chamber and pushes them down and slides the bolt over the top to close the bolt without a round chambered.

That’s even what I did with the couple hinged floor plates I’ve had, seemed more intuitive to me

 

[Mike D Texas]

I don’t recommend a 22WMR for carry. However, as long as bullets penetrate 14’ish inches they will reach vital organs. Federal Punch has been doing well.

I’m confused. You don’t recommend 22WMR for carry and presumably defense against 2 legged critters which are typically much less formidable than 4 legged ones but do recommend to carry it for Bear defense?

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[Mike D Texas]

Accidentally dropping a mag from well design DBM system is a red herring- it simply is not a thing.
Stupid, poorly designed systems, sure. Lots of chassis and PRS bottom metal and mag latches are too long. However those aren’t field systems anymore than a 60x bench rest scopes are. The entire world is dominated by DBM’s and yet magazines aren’t littering the ground.
In any case, spare magazines are apart of the system and should be carried.




How do you lose a magazine? Do you also lose the ammunition?

Why is that people don’t “lose” pistol or AR magazines, but bolt action mags are some miracle smoke that just disappears?






Forgetting a magazine is just as amateur as forgetting the ammo- again, a red herring.

Preach it!


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[Mike D Texas]

A lock button doesn’t keep you from forgetting one in the pickup

No but not being complacent does as does carrying a spare mag or 2 in your pack.


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[Mike D Texas]

This one does depend on body size, shape, belt type, pants; do you want over the belt clips, thread through, leather, kydex, etc, etc. For leather that SME holster is probably the one most consistently preferred one that I know of.

For kydex, something like this is my preference-

View attachment 693495


View attachment 693496

Form did that come on the holster or did you add it on? If it came with it what holster is that ? If not, where did you purchase it?

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[Jason Snyder]

No but not being complacent does as does carrying a spare mag or 2 in your pack.


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[JohnJohnson]

He's not wrong though. The arguments against DBM appear to have nothing to do with function and everything to do with assuming people are hapless morons.

 

[BjornF16]

I didn’t recommend anything. If you believe I did, I would suggest to relisten.

My take away was that even a .22 WMR will penetrate bear skull, so a 9mm (speed, hit rate) over a 10mm for woods carry makes sense. Of course, bullet selection matters.

I shot a friends’ PMR30 yesterday. Seems like it would make a good training gun.

 

[Jason Snyder]

He's not wrong though. The arguments against DBM appear to have nothing to do with function and everything to do with assuming people are hapless morons.

No, he’s not wrong. My eye roll was about the lack of a spare (no one carries a duplicate of everything), and the insinuation that complacency is the sole reason for forgetting something.

And, it was meant to be funny. I guess if someone wants to take it super serious, have at it. It’s hunting. It’s a recreational hobby. If I forget a magazine once (and we did) then you have a single shot. The deer still died.

 

[ElPollo]

The MV SD Form Friday really needed visuals. Didn’t necessarily need Form’s face, but a PowerPoint of WEZ outputs with a a voice track over would have really helped. I still got the message, but about halfway through I was just hearing strings of numbers.

 

[Formidilosus]

I’m confused. You don’t recommend 22WMR for carry and presumably defense against 2 legged critters which are typically much less formidable than 4 legged ones but do recommend to carry it for Bear defense?

Please point out where in the podcast that I recommend a 22 WMR anyone? I know at least twice I stated specifically that I am not recommending or telling anyone to do anything. I stated the reality of stopping animals, and what I do- not what you, or anyone else should do.

 

[Reburn]

@Formidilosus
Thanks for the SD, ES, MV podcast.

When running numbers like that do you think it would be better to run the accuracy of the gun at 1.5 and 2.0 moa to be a little more realistic for most peoples guns?

Or are you just trying to show the numbers for exceptional best case scenarior that is realistically impossible vs the functional best people can hope for.

 

[Formidilosus]

@Formidilosus
Or are you just trying to show the numbers for exceptional best case scenarior that is realistically impossible vs the functional best people can hope for.

Correct. The less accurate the rifle is, MV SD matters even less. In any decent ammo, MV SD is just not a factor that causes issues. Focus on things that do and can be improved.

 

[Mike D Texas]

Please point out where in the podcast that I recommend a 22 WMR anyone? I know at least twice I stated specifically that I am not recommending or telling anyone to do anything. I stated the reality of stopping animals, and what I do- not what you, or anyone else should do.

You may not have “recommended” it, but you sure seemed to advocate for it.

At least that’s how I interpreted it.

Better?


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[Formidilosus]

You may not have “recommended” it, but you sure seemed to advocate for it.

At least that’s how I interpreted it.

Better?


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No. I didn’t recommend or advocate. I stated facts.

“There is no pistol cartridge that will guarantee, or even remotely cause enough damage to physiologically stop a bear with a non CNS hit. To guarantee a stop you must disrupt the CNS. Full stop, the end.

How much straight line penetration does it take to reach a bears brain? Once that depth has been achieved, then the most shootable gun/cartridge platform- will have the highest success rate overall.”


What I have measured- from snout to brain of grizzlies requires between 12-14 inches of penetration at most- that is traveling the entire length of the face to reach the brain.

While taking that into account, the 9mm has the most desirable attributes with more than sufficient penetration of all the common cartridges- with near identical wound channel size, and as much or more penetration than the most commonly recommended choice .
When taking all of those factors into account, plus the shootability, plus the weight- a reliable 22 mag pistol is what I choose if not using a 9mm.