The Randy Ulmer......

[amp713]

So I have always been one to shoot what spine charts say, but ive ran into the issue that if i wanna shoot more weight up front to increase FOC I could become underspined quickly. While listening to Randy Ulmer talk archery online he mentioned that whatever arrow he decides to shoot he shoots the stiffest spine they offer. He said he thinks that over spine doesnt hurt your shooting as much as everyone claims. He can stack up the weight to this arrow, jump up poundage whatever he wants and underspine is never an issue. I really think that this is what I will start doing but was curious what others thoughts, comments or hate mail was on this..... We all pretty well know what underspine does but he really seems to have a valid point and not to mention we have ALL probably seen the monsters he kills.... Plus he was a very very good target archer!!!

Im not adding that last part to make you think that it will help you kill bigger animals and thats not what I'm hoping the change will do for me I'm just saying this is coming from someone who knows what he is talking about. Not a guy who joined a hunting forum after buying his first bow ha

 

[Buster]

I like to lean toward more spine than less as well. I still try to stay within reason. Comforting to know that Ulmer thinks the same way. I am by no means a pro shop expert, so my opinion doesn't hold any weight compared to Ulmer's. Hopefully some of the archery tech's and pro shop guys chime in on this.

 

[MattB]

I have shot overspined arrows for years with no apparent ill effects, and would tend to agree with the notion of going with an over-stiff arrow. Doing this generally has the added benefit of increasing overall arrow weight, which pays dividends with improved penetration.

Personally I wouldn't jump through any hoops to follow the high FOC fad though. With today's equipment I would think it is pretty rare for any of us to not get full penetration (Rage-shooting huntertainers aside ;-), and some of the equipment choices people use to increase FOC (i.e. lighter, stiffer shafts) reduce the reliablity of the system as a whole. Not worth the tradeoff IMO.

 

[Tilzbow]

I shoot the heaviest spine shafts I can with my compound. My two favorite setups right now are a GT Kinetic at .200 spine with 150 + 20 gr or so insert up front and a Black Eagle Eagle Deep Impact at .250 spine with a 125 point and a 30 gr outsert. Both these tune great at 70# and 30" draw. I also shoot a .300 spine Carbon Express but I'm limited to 100 gr points with that shaft otherwise broad head flight gets touchy.

 

[SDHNTR]

I build mine slightly overspined on purpose.

 

[Rick Leathley]

I'm with Randy. I like my arrows stiff, heavy and a pretty high FoC. Currently shooting 493gr VAP's with 18% FoC at 311fps. I swear every other white tail hunting show I see, the deer run off with the lighted nock bouncing along stuck in the chest.

That said, men better then me kill Elk and moose with lighter setups every year.

 

[boom]

I wish he was my next door neighbor. Imagine the crap you get to learn?!!!

My arrows are over spined.

 

[HurricaneHuge]

A lot depends on knowing what you want to do. I agree with increasing spine, but the average person doesn't need a .200 spine. Take your draw length and likely poundage into account. Then figure out what weight range you want to play with. The biggest issue with arrow weight you run into on the pro shop side is guys who spend too much time on archery forums (offense only meant towards some). They hear speeds, speed kills, this guy is shooting this spine, so and so ran my numbers in his archery software and said to shoot this, etc. You want heavy and mean, by all means go for it. I shoot 490 grains with GT kinetic 300's. Much more confident with those bruisers than I am with the 380 grains I was shooting a few years ago. Shattered a femur on a doe this past fall and pushed through in front of the opposite hind quarter. Held in by just the fletchings. And that was following a Rage Extreme (also held up exceptionally well). I say hit 'em with a Mack Truck, but a lot of people are opting for a Prius.

 

[OR Archer]

A lot depends on knowing what you want to do. I agree with increasing spine, but the average person doesn't need a .200 spine. Take your draw length and likely poundage into account. Then figure out what weight range you want to play with. The biggest issue with arrow weight you run into on the pro shop side is guys who spend too much time on archery forums (offense only meant towards some). They hear speeds, speed kills, this guy is shooting this spine, so and so ran my numbers in his archery software and said to shoot this, etc. You want heavy and mean, by all means go for it. I shoot 490 grains with GT kinetic 300's. Much more confident with those bruisers than I am with the 380 grains I was shooting a few years ago. Shattered a femur on a doe this past fall and pushed through in front of the opposite hind quarter. Held in by just the fletchings. And that was following a Rage Extreme (also held up exceptionally well). I say hit 'em with a Mack Truck, but a lot of people are opting for a Prius.

I agree with a lot of this. There is a point where there will be diminishing returns. Every set up is different of course. It all comes down to confidence in ones equipment. If it shoots good for you and its accurate by all means run with it.

 

[ontarget7]

Never seen an arrow to stiff to tune

 

[OR Archer]

There is a point where a really stiff arrow will be very finicky to tune. That's not to say it wont tune but it takes time and you need to have good shooting habits to do it.

 

[Jtelarkin08]

I am running .200 spine kinetics and only have a 28 inch draw.. But I am running 80#, and 200 grains up front.. They fly like darts

 

[Brandon Pattison]

Good thread, Amp.

 

[amp713]

Ya i was kinda enjoying seeing what everyone said. I def think that I agree with most here and regret not getting the stiffer spine like i thought about but Ill grab another dozen here soon and go with the stiffer spine for sure!

 

[G Posik]

This is what a lot of the traditional guys have been doing for many years. Start off with a super stuff shaft out weight up front and shoot. Shorten the shaft a little at a time until you get them to fly right. Then put the feathers on. My arrows for my 70# recurve is FMJ 340's with 100grain inserts. 210 grains of head, with three 4" feathers I have a total weight of 715 grains +\- 4 grains. My FOC is 23% and speed is running about 184' per second. I have shot some pigs in the shoulder plate and gotten full penetration. I wish I would have done this when I was shooting wheel bows.

Glenn

 

[dangerousD]

I just recently switched to 340 for my setup. I'm have a Hoyt Carbon Matrix @ 29" DL and 67 lb DW and 27" arrows. I originally had Axis 400's, which the chart says are OK, but it's borderline. Been shooting those for a few years, but could never get my fixed blades to tune with my field points at long distance. I've always read to error on the stiff side. Never heard anything about shooting the stiffest arrow available though and probably personally wouldn't go that extreme, but I'm no Randy Ulmer so what do I know... LOL. Now that I'm running 340's, everything is working much better. Keep it stiff!

 

[mt100gr.]

First thing I think of is setting up kids and first timers who can't draw much weight at first but develop quickly and increase draw weight before they break all their arrows. I would always set them up with the arrows they would need if they max out the bow. You don't need to over do it, but I have never seen ill effects from overspining. By the time they are getting some accuracy, they are increasing weight and I never want to change things up when good results are starting to show through.

Bottom line, stiffer arrows give you more flexibility in how you want to set up you foc. (That almost doesn't make sense...) anyway, I would step up to something that could handle 10# heavier draw and 50 grains additional tip weight?? Or 2" more draw length and increased tip weight....don't need the stiffness shafts out there.

 

[Craig Van Arsdale]

I run .250 spine gold tip big games out of one setup about 511 grains the other is a gold tip .300 spine about 450 grains both are a little over spined.

 

[ontarget7]

I just recently switched to 340 for my setup. I'm have a Hoyt Carbon Matrix @ 29" DL and 67 lb DW and 27" arrows. I originally had Axis 400's, which the chart says are OK, but it's borderline. Been shooting those for a few years, but could never get my fixed blades to tune with my field points at long distance. I've always read to error on the stiff side. Never heard anything about shooting the stiffest arrow available though and probably personally wouldn't go that extreme, but I'm no Randy Ulmer so what do I know... LOL. Now that I'm running 340's, everything is working much better. Keep it stiff!

You were definitely weak in the 400's with your specs and the 340's are by no means stiff for your set up.
Good move

 

[dangerousD]

You were definitely weak in the 400's with your specs and the 340's are by no means stiff for your set up.
Good move

This makes me wonder if I should have gone to the 300's, but so far things are good with the 340's. I guess that's the problem with the charts. Easton chart says 400 with a 27" arrow and 100 grain tip and that's what the pro shop set me up with but I've certainly learned a lot more in recent years on tuning. Stiff is good! Thanks!