THE most important factor in Bowhunting

[Billy Goat]

Sure would, but the question is whether they are primarily focused on harvesting deer or sponsorship dollars?

It isn't infrequent for them to use a different bow than what you are lead to believe. Especially since they don't get them but at the very start of season many times, if not mid season.

 

[Zac]

When the target is moving the shaft will never hit the medium square. My guess is this was due to a blade deploying before the chisel tip dug in. This is common with mechanicals that ride the blades very close to the tip. On an angled shot the blade will deploy sending the shaft into a tail spin. Sometimes the points do dig in and sometimes they don't. Alot of pictures of Rages that cut holes bigger than 2 inches are testament to this. Snyder shot a doe about three years ago with a Dead Meat. He unzipped the entire side of the doe and never recovered it.

 

[Beendare]

Edit- It appears there is another Waddell video where he gets into the shot on that deer that bounced off saying that he did shoot a light arrow, so this video doesn’t really apply here
It seems the light Bow and arrow theory is out.

My intent of this thread has nothing to do with Waddell, I was just using that vid to point out the factors we bow hunters face With arrow flight, arrow selection, Brodhead selection, etc.

——

 

[Billy Goat]

So you are saying heavy arrows don't make up for a poor tune?


I'll agree.

But I am still often skeptical of what they tell you.

Hopefully people listen to what you are saying Bruce, often it's not what arrow, how heavy, or what's on the front, but how straight it flys.

 

[Zac]

Last year Tbone was shooting a 550 grain Sirius Apollo I think it was. Anyway, there's alot of issues that could have been at fault. That trigger could have been mashed due to that buck moving. My theory is that mechanical head is to blame. It's alot to ask of a head to deploy blades and penetrate simultaneously.

 

[Beendare]

So you are saying heavy arrows don't make up for a poor tune?
..I'll agree.....

often it's not what arrow, how heavy, or what's on the front, but how straight it flys.

yes.... and yes

Im sure many of us have seen it....there is no substitute for perfect arrow flight.

—

 

[5MilesBack]

My theory is that mechanical head is to blame.

I would agree. Those Dead Meat heads have very little space between the tip and where the blades start. On an angled shot I doubt that they penetrate at all before at least one blade is opening. It wouldn't take much to deflect one of those heads. And looking at the 10" cut on that deer, it looks like that's exactly what happened. I'm not sure about the Dead Meat, but their predecessor the T3 wobbled like crazy right out of the package.

 

[Zac]

I would agree. Those Dead Meat heads have very little space between the tip and where the blades start. On an angled shot I doubt that they penetrate at all before at least one blade is opening. It wouldn't take much to deflect one of those heads. And looking at the 10" cut on that deer, it looks like that's exactly what happened. I'm not sure about the Dead Meat, but their predecessor the T3 wobbled like crazy right out of the package.

That's the struggle with mechs. You want a good leading point, yet when you have two inches of blade you end up with a giant ferrule. I think the Evolution Outdoors system is a good one. Their mechanical blades are pointed and sharpened on the end. They are supposed to cut on entry and deploy inside. The downfall of that design is you get a tiny entrance hole compared to the rear deploying heads.

 

[kpk]

Whether it was due to 1) Nerves in the shot creating a form error, 2) Lack of Arrow tuning of his set up, or 3) one of those blades deployed on the shot making that arrow fly wonky..... we will never know. Its not the bow, Poor Arrow Flight Kills penetration.

I'm gonna say options 1 and 2 seem FAR less likely than number 3.

 

[Billy Goat]

I'd bet that even with a funky head like that on the front of the arrow, if the arrow was flying dead straight it still would have penetrated.

I have taken lots of hard angle shots with an over the top expandable and never had a glance, I think that comes from the arrow still not being true in flight.

 

[Beendare]

I'd bet that even with a funky head like that on the front of the arrow, if the arrow was flying dead straight it still would have penetrated.

I have taken lots of hard angle shots with an over the top expandable and never had a glance, I think that comes from the arrow still not being true in flight.

I posted the same topic over on archery talk and there’s a few guys over there that would disagree with you, they had Mech heads not dig in and deflections.

One or two guys posted pictures proving it.

...

 

[Billy Goat]

I posted the same topic over on archery talk and there’s a few guys over there that would disagree with you, they had Mech heads not dig in and deflections.

One or two guys posted pictures proving it.

...

Did they have perfect arrow flight tho?


Going back to your diagrams and the force vector of the arrow, I think even a quartering target they would work if the force vector was behind the broadhead. Now it might not work on plywood, but put hair, leather and 1/2" of fat or so over it and I still think as wonky as those points are they would still work unless it was an angle past something like 60-65 degrees.

I might be wrong.

It's easier for someone to blame a broadhead than themselves. Doesn't matter if it's tuning or their form fell apart.

I'm not trying to defend that broadhead either, I wouldn't ever shoot anything like that.

 

[Beendare]

Did they have perfect arrow flight tho?

There is no way to know. And there is no way to know that even if a guy does have his bow tuned for BHs he still could have had a nervous form error on the shot causing poor Arrow Flight.

That^ can happen with any BH.

It’s easy to test that vector diagram I posted. After shooting your Broadhead tuned set up into a 3-D animal, Move your rest an eighth of an inch and shoot another arrow, the penetration difference is significant. It’s huge with a Mech Brodhead.

But we already know most of the mechanical broadheads Shooters don’t test for Broadhead Arrow flight..... thus many are shooting an arrow with a slight wobble and they don’t even realize it.It’s possible Waddell is one of those guys, I don’t know

....

 

[MattB]

Alot of pictures of Rages that cut holes bigger than 2 inches are testament to this.

Many BH's stretch the hide before cutting and results in entrance or exit holes larger than the cutting diameter, even on animals that are not moving.

 

[N2TRKYS]

The video you posted doesn’t prove the point that you were trying to make, to me.

 

[Zac]

Many BH's stretch the hide before cutting and results in entrance or exit holes larger than the cutting diameter, even on animals that are not moving.

This is what the manufacturers always like to say. If you look at most of the shots with gaping holes most of them were taken on quartering shots. I've never seen a push test on hide produce a bigger hole than the size of the head. Stretching the hide sounds much better if your in the business of selling 2 inch mechanicals.

 

[5MilesBack]

Now it might not work on plywood, but put hair, leather and 1/2" of fat or so over it and I still think as wonky as those points are they would still work unless it was an angle past something like 60-65 degrees.

I've shot my over the top mechanicals at some very severe angles at 3/4" plywood and they've always penetrated well.

 

[Billy Goat]

I've shot my over the top mechanicals at some very severe angles at 3/4" plywood and they've always penetrated well.

Yeah, but those are Spitfires.



Those GR Fatal steel handle it well too?

 

[5MilesBack]

Ya, the Fatal Steel heads have a longer distance between the top of the blades and the tip so they seem to dig in well. I've actually worried more about the Spitfires than them. And if I shot those Dead Meats I really worry about it..........to the point of not using them. I seem to get a lot of quartering away shots.

 

[MattB]

This is what the manufacturers always like to say. If you look at most of the shots with gaping holes most of them were taken on quartering shots. I've never seen a push test on hide produce a bigger hole than the size of the head. Stretching the hide sounds much better if your in the business of selling 2 inch mechanicals.

I've killed around 70 animals with MBH's and my experience says otherwise, but OK.