The Middle Ground: Hunting Pressure vs. Wolves

[I90west]

After 7 seasons of hunting North Idaho, my dad and I have noticed a phenomenon when it comes to finding elk, and I’m curious if others have experienced it. It seems like we are in a constant battle of finding ways to get away from people and get away from wolves but staying in elk. Obviously, the most hunting pressure takes place within a mile of a road. But the farther you get away from the road, the more wolf/predator sign we seem to find.

It seems like there are a few pockets in between the hunting pressure and wolf sign that are golden. And if I had to chose between lots of hunters or lots of wolves, it seems like areas of high hunting pressure hold more elk (I think we are far less effective predators).

We are hunting a brand new area this year in the panhandle that allows us to put more miles on our boots and get away from roads. We have no problem using this to our advantage, but we have worries that it could possibly be in vain to hunt so deep. Has anyone else experienced this phenomenon?

 

[FlareBlitz91]

After 7 seasons of hunting North Idaho, my dad and I have noticed a phenomenon when it comes to finding elk, and I’m curious if others have experienced it. It seems like we are in a constant battle of finding ways to get away from people and get away from wolves but staying in elk. Obviously, the most hunting pressure takes place within a mile of a road. But the farther you get away from the road, the more wolf/predator sign we seem to find.

It seems like there are a few pockets in between the hunting pressure and wolf sign that are golden. And if I had to chose between lots of hunters or lots of wolves, it seems like areas of high hunting pressure hold more elk (I think we are far less effective predators).

We are hunting a brand new area this year in the panhandle that allows us to put more miles on our boots and get away from roads. We have no problem using this to our advantage, but we have worries that it could possibly be in vain to hunt so deep. Has anyone else experienced this phenomenon?

Well i disagree with your assessment of who’s the more effective predator, through math alone were far more effective and have a way bigger disturbance.

I’m in east idaho and have a couple decades experience in northern, WI where wolf numbers are high. I’ve noticed that once the snow falls and after gun deer season wolves use our snowmobile/ATV trails highly effectively to move around.

They cover a ton of country in a way that’s less predictable than we are. Hunting pressure is basically consistent from predictable directions (roads, trailheads, etc). Elk and deer react to that. Wolves on the other hand aren’t as consistent or predictable, a pack moving through an area doesn’t tend to blow it out the way people sometimes think it does.

 

[I90west]

Well i disagree with your assessment of who’s the more effective predator, through math alone were far more effective and have a way bigger disturbance.

I’m in east idaho and have a couple decades experience in northern, WI where wolf numbers are high. I’ve noticed that once the snow falls and after gun deer season wolves use our snowmobile/ATV trails highly effectively to move around.

They cover a ton of country in a way that’s less predictable than we are. Hunting pressure is basically consistent from predictable directions (roads, trailheads, etc). Elk and deer react to that. Wolves on the other hand aren’t as consistent or predictable, a pack moving through an area doesn’t tend to blow it out the way people sometimes think it does.

I agree with you on humans being a bigger disturbance because of there are far more hunters in the woods in September than wolves. But I respectfully disagree with you on the numbers…a single wolf eats 15-20 ungulates a year and the average for elk hunter kills one every 10 years.

There are elk that will get hunted almost every day of the season but yet still return to the same burn or basin each night.

Now granted, I’ve had bulls bugling and wolves howling at the same time, it just seem when you get into an area with a ton of wolf sign the elk are just not there. And it seems like the farther you get from the road the more areas you fin like this. My experience is solely in North Idaho so this could be off base for a lot of other areas.

 

[Indian Summer]

It’s not a question of which is a more effective hunter. The question is which has more impact on elk numbers and elk habits. Wolves are clearly a more effective predator for a couple reasons. First and foremost they can hunt 24/7/365. That alone gives them the advantage. Add to that the fact that some hunters are hunting bulls only while anything is fair game to wolves, cows calves, spike bulls… anything that stands still long enough.

As far as a sweet spot…I suppose wolves behave differently in different areas but wolves will certainly hunt all the way to and beyond the roads to ranches. They just do it at night. It’s not like people mainly hunt 1-2 miles away and wolves are from 4 miles and further. We overlap. We’re doing the same thing they are.

 

[Customweld]

After 7 seasons of hunting North Idaho, my dad and I have noticed a phenomenon when it comes to finding elk, and I’m curious if others have experienced it. It seems like we are in a constant battle of finding ways to get away from people and get away from wolves but staying in elk. Obviously, the most hunting pressure takes place within a mile of a road. But the farther you get away from the road, the more wolf/predator sign we seem to find.

It seems like there are a few pockets in between the hunting pressure and wolf sign that are golden. And if I had to chose between lots of hunters or lots of wolves, it seems like areas of high hunting pressure hold more elk (I think we are far less effective predators).

We are hunting a brand new area this year in the panhandle that allows us to put more miles on our boots and get away from roads. We have no problem using this to our advantage, but we have worries that it could possibly be in vain to hunt so deep. Has anyone else experienced this phenomenon?

I think that is fairly accurate depiction of what happens in SW Idaho as well. The elk hang much closer to the private/ag/urban interface where human presence keeps the wolves a little more honest. It kind of goes against common thought but getting 10 miles back, away from human action isn't always the best solution to finding elk.

 

[FlareBlitz91]

When i said effective I meant more along the lines of what Indian Summer said, in terms of impact on numbers. We wipe out 20k elk in two weeks.

 

[TaperPin]

You might try and track down some information on wolf locations - seems every pack is still watched closely. With a lot of wolf activity the elk stay hidden in the timber a lot more and move more often.

The difference in elk behavior in Yellowstone has been very dramatic.

 

[Deadfall]

You are right about effectiveness. Wolves are 100 percent more effective at killing. What I've noticed is that if you shoot up the wolves they run for miles and miles. Especially if it's a productive sitting. As a result, elk and deer activity goes through a night a day change. Usually within 4 to 6 days.

I've also noticed that elk and deer seem to know that where people are, wolves are not. As long as those packs have been hunted before.

Elk and deer have adjusted to the wolves. Takes a minute. They learn quick. Also noticed that elk are willing to be just as vocal as ever once they are coerced a bit.

See elk coming back into places they initially abandoned for a few years. There's lots of days I watch bulls through spotter doing elk things, while wolves are half or 3/4 mile away howling and doing wolf things.

In the spring old bulls are not always traveling as far as they once did. Finding more and more OLD bulls closer to winter range during archery season. During rifle, higher lonelier spots then typical 15 years ago.

 

[ElkNut1]

In a nutshell you are not calling enough!

ElkNut

 

[Ross]

If you can find the pockets wolves are not actively hunting and or have a fresh kill my experience well before they arrived and since then is you can have very good calling. If the wolves are hammering the area it is best to move to another drainage.

 

[I90west]

You are right about effectiveness. Wolves are 100 percent more effective at killing. What I've noticed is that if you shoot up the wolves they run for miles and miles. Especially if it's a productive sitting. As a result, elk and deer activity goes through a night a day change. Usually within 4 to 6 days.

I've also noticed that elk and deer seem to know that where people are, wolves are not. As long as those packs have been hunted before.

Elk and deer have adjusted to the wolves. Takes a minute. They learn quick. Also noticed that elk are willing to be just as vocal as ever once they are coerced a bit.

See elk coming back into places they initially abandoned for a few years. There's lots of days I watch bulls through spotter doing elk things, while wolves are half or 3/4 mile away howling and doing wolf things.

In the spring old bulls are not always traveling as far as they once did. Finding more and more OLD bulls closer to winter range during archery season. During rifle, higher lonelier spots than typical 15 years

If you can find the pockets wolves are not actively hunting and or have a fresh kill my experience well before they arrived and since then is you can have very good calling. If the wolves are hammering the area it is best to move to another drainage.

Have you noticed a difference as far as the proximity to a road? For example, does it seem like you find the more remote drainages to get hammered by wolves more than the ones directly off the road. Or does this not play as big of a factor in your opinion?

 

[ndbuck09]

I too have had the experience many times to where if we have wolves in our "A" drainage and we take an hour or two to go after them and put pressure on em, they leave and are then gone for a good many days, which within a day equates to the elk being more comfortable that are in the drainage. The elk are then much easier to get talking.

So now, if we hear the wolves howl, we just go and take the heat to them. Even if we get a glimpse of em and take some shots with our pistols, that gets the wolves pushed and I swear the elk are telling us thanks. lol

 

[Customweld]

I too have had the experience many times to where if we have wolves in our "A" drainage and we take an hour or two to go after them and put pressure on em, they leave and are then gone for a good many days, which within a day equates to the elk being more comfortable that are in the drainage. The elk are then much easier to get talking.

So now, if we hear the wolves howl, we just go and take the heat to them. Even if we get a glimpse of em and take some shots with our pistols, that gets the wolves pushed and I swear the elk are telling us thanks. lol

Interesting approach. A short detour to improve your odds a couple of days later. I like it.

 

[Ross]

@jaystern28 yep my favorite far removed places got hammered by wolves as I Never ran across people..I posted this 4 yrs ago a mountain I’ve killed many big bulls on a pack claimed it and killed this bull just out of sight on my cam we missed the attack by hrs..over several yrs I found double digit wolf kills and the elk simply stopped talking for the most part . In wolf country need many more options these days

 

[I90west]

@Ross thanks for the input. I think we hunt some similar areas so it’s reassuring to know that this hypothesis may be accurate. Wolves are just part of the landscape and it just adapting to them. And like you said, having lots of options might be the biggest key to success. Good luck this year!

 

[Deadfall]

Have you noticed a difference as far as the proximity to a road? For example, does it seem like you find the more remote drainages to get hammered by wolves more than the ones directly off the road. Or does this not play as big of a factor in your opinion?

Generally. Yes. Where wolves are hunted hard. They stay clear of roads. Where they not hunted real hard road stuff doesn't seem to factor.

 

[Indian Summer]

Have you noticed a difference as far as the proximity to a road? For example, does it seem like you find the more remote drainages to get hammered by wolves more than the ones directly off the road. Or does this not play as big of a factor in your opinion?

No difference. Ask any lion hunter who drives every road in the county and they’ll tell you they sometimes have a hard time finding a road without wolf tracks where it’s safe to turn dogs loose. You are thinking like a human. Elk and deer cross roads all the time too. They don’t look on a map for wilderness areas. I shot a wolf from a forest service road once.