The long shots

[Brad1974]

I was just reading another recent post in this forum about the distance people are shooting their bucks, and it really got me thinking.. I didn't want to hijack that thread, so I figured I'd start this one to see if I could dig a little deeper into that subject. It seems many people are shooting 300-600 yards at deer fairly regularly. My questions is.. why is that? what is the reason you are taking shots at the distances you do? Is it because there is no way to get closer in those instances? no closer cover? being closer would risk getting winded? because when you see the buck you feel it is necessary to get him down sooner rather than later & getting closer would risk losing the buck? is it simply to test your long range shooting capabilities on an animal? or because you just know you're that good of a shot and so why bother getting closer? Is the decision to take a shot or get closer more of a terrain dependent thing? Are the longer shots taken during a spot and stalk scenario or is it a different type of hunting you are doing when taking long shots? I'm just genuinely curious about thought process and reasoning for different lengths of shots.

 

[WeiserBucks]

I'm sure this will go well, especially once the word ethics starts getting thrown around.

 

[Brad1974]

I'm sure this will go well, especially once the word ethics starts getting thrown around.

Yea, I hope my questions didn't come across as rage bait... it definitely is not intended for that purpose. I do see some crap out there with people bragging about their 964 yard shot, or whatever, that to me is pretty cringeworthy when you see the animal limping off looking injured from a poor shot. But that's not what I'm talking about here. I assume the vast majority of poeple on here are serious hunters, with good reasoning behind what they do. I really want to learn more about the why behind what people do, especially the ones who are successful on a regular basis.

 

[WeiserBucks]

For me? As soon as whatever game I'm hunting is within a range that I feel 100% confident, I'm shooting. I see no reason to get closer than "in range" given whatever scenario. No reason for me to make things harder than they already are. I'm trying to kill an animal, not make up some additional mental and physical challenge of getting closer.

Some scenarios 600 is in range, other scenarios 350 is out of range. Know your tools, know your skill level and make a decision. It's that simple.

 

[PathFinder]

It's mostly because deer hunting is about finding a deer to shoot, not a shot to take. Closer is always better, but when pressure is high/deer are hard to find/etc, just take the shot that's available within the shooter's ability. It's pretty common that shots are either going to be long or bow range in a lot of terrain.
There's a reason why the firearms/long range/scope evals on Rokslide are the busiest parts of the site. Many of us probably went through a similar process. See long/tough opportunity in the field, either miss or can't shoot -> Try to learn long range. Some early success leads to false confidence -> Fail again in the field -> Finally, over a period of years, go through the effort to get rifles working properly and become competent -> Able to make shots in field conditions that seem crazy to most hunters.
If you're watching YT/etc, you're seeing a lot of incompetent people claiming competence while posting evidence to the contrary. If being able to shoot that far interests you, set up a rifle properly and buy a pallet of ammo. If not, it's still possible to kill deer. Overall, time of year accounted for, I still think MZ season is the best time to actually hunt and kill big mule deer. Shooting 500+ yards isn't necessary, but it sure helps sometimes.

 

[robby denning]

.... It seems many people are shooting 300-600 yards at deer fairly regularly.

(i'm in the 200-400 crowd, with only 3 bucks killed in my life over 400 with max of 485)

My questions is.. why is that? ...

because when you see the buck you feel it is necessary to get him down sooner rather than later & getting closer would risk losing the buck?

this is why^

Rifle or bow, once I'm in range, I'm in range and it's time (assuming a good line of sight, and a steady rest)... way too much can go wrong trying to get closer

And is why I really like the sub 400 rifle/sub 60 bow.

 

[Andrew12gauge]

It’s because shooting is cooler than hunting now


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[longrangelead]

first, long is relative.
people tend to compare others by their own experience.
if a guy has no place or reason to shoot beyond 200 yds, 400 is mind boggling.

A friend from Iowa had never shot a rifle or past 100 yards in his life until he moved to Montana at 42.

I've lived in the mountains my whole life and love hunting open country too.

I've also shot a lot my whole life.

Ridge to ridge, or ridge into cover is often the only way.
In open country like eastern Montana, I've had antelope bust me at half a mile and elk at 1000 yards.

if I can get closer I generally do, however, at 450 yds I know I don't need to. one year everything I shot was 450 +/- a few yards, just how it worked out.
with antelope tags in 2 states, whitetail and muley doe tags, cow tags, buck and bull tags, we got a lot of shooting in back when things were good.

This year the buck i shot was 485 and no way to get closer, he busted me @ 500 several days prior in a high traffic area. So, I got in position as close as I needed to and waited.

I also love muzzleloader hunting and Blacktails in timber. I tried bow hunting and it just isn't my thing. I've killed several animals at 40-50 feet or so.
I've also watched the biggest muley I could have legally shot and several nice bulls walk because they were beyond what I was positive I could kill them at.

people act like "long range" guys are one dimensional.
maybe some are, I bet most aren't, it's just what the situation calls for.

 

[270Hunter]

Maybe it’s because of where I hunt or how I hunt, I think it’s a combination of both. But my farthest shot on a buck was at 460, my biggest buck I killed at 120 yards, but every deer I’ve killed except for two have been in the 100-300 yard range.
I think a lot of shooting limitations are situational and personal. If I get to 350 yards on a buck I want to shoot, and the situation is good for me I’m going to get set up and shoot the buck. I don’t feel like I have to keep getting closer and closer if I am already in range of my comfortable and effective distance.
I would never take a shot at an animal to “test” my long range capabilities and I think everyone could agree with me on that. In a spot and stalk scenario for me I try to locate a spot that will be within my range, conceal my presence and gives me a good view of where the buck is and the surrounding area. Unless something happens I’m really hesitant to leave a position where I know if the buck presents a shot I can kill him. Because so much can happen when you try to get 100 yards closer or he could get up and feed off in the five minutes that you were down in a draw.
In the words of Jason Carter “you gotta find a way to kill them when you see them”

 

[BH107]

For me it is terrain dependent. I have been in situations where shooting across a coulee was the only option in open country. My longest was 550yds on a deer in Colorado in one opening in a sea of junipers… no other shot and that’s why he lived there. Other years I have stalked into 150yds when the opportunity presented itself, and ambushed under 100 in other situations.

Technology has definitely made it easier but practice and knowing your equipment is key. When you can regularly shoot 800-1000 yards the hunting distance shots become automatic.

Then again it’s nothing new… when I was a kid I knew old timers that loved their 300 Weatherbys and killing deer and elk at 500-600 yards with an old 12x scope

 

[Brad1974]

It’s because shooting is cooler than hunting now


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

oh, you had to go there.... ha! well, I have seemed to notice the trend toward bragging about how far shots are taken on deer & elk... but my thought process is that it makes more sense to be proud of how close you can get, not how far away you can be. But as I said, I want to learn how good rifle hunters think about when to move closer and when you should take the shot, mostly because I would like to be a better rifle hunter.

 

[Brad1974]

(i'm in the 200-400 crowd, with only 3 bucks killed in my life over 400 with max of 485)



this is why^

Rifle or bow, once I'm in range, I'm in range and it's time (assuming a good line of sight, and a steady rest)... way too much can go wrong trying to get closer

And is why I really like the sub 400 rifle/sub 60 bow.

So when you are rifle hunting, is it generally a spot and stalk situation where you are moving in on a bedded buck? would you then set up in the first spot inside of 400 that you can get crosshairs on the buck? or do you the look for closer set up options and assess the odds of getting there and still having success?

My hunt september was archery, and I was really lucky to even spot the buck, and there was one small patch of bushes I knew I needed to get to. When I got to that spot I was at 55 yards, and I knew it was a possible shot, but my confidence on an animal at that range was moderate at best. I noticed there was one single bush that if I could get there would be the closest I could get, and since I thought I could get there I went for it. It was 30 yds away and from there I knew the shot was going to be a sure thing if presented. Thankfully, It worked out. But, I had confidence he would not likely be getting up from his bed for a while. I watched him, set up on my knees ready to shoot for I think it was about an hour or hour and a half. I'm not even sure if I could have killed that buck with a rifle... maybe if I set up at the 55 yard spot and waited. Maybe I would have just set up from where I first spotted the buck, which was about 450-500 yards away... there really wasn't anything but sage brush between those two options.

 

[Brad1974]

first, long is relative.
people tend to compare others by their own experience.
if a guy has no place or reason to shoot beyond 200 yds, 400 is mind boggling.

A friend from Iowa had never shot a rifle or past 100 yards in his life until he moved to Montana at 42.

I've lived in the mountains my whole life and love hunting open country too.

I've also shot a lot my whole life.

Ridge to ridge, or ridge into cover is often the only way.
In open country like eastern Montana, I've had antelope bust me at half a mile and elk at 1000 yards.

if I can get closer I generally do, however, at 450 yds I know I don't need to. one year everything I shot was 450 +/- a few yards, just how it worked out.
with antelope tags in 2 states, whitetail and muley doe tags, cow tags, buck and bull tags, we got a lot of shooting in back when things were good.

This year the buck i shot was 485 and no way to get closer, he busted me @ 500 several days prior in a high traffic area. So, I got in position as close as I needed to and waited.

I also love muzzleloader hunting and Blacktails in timber. I tried bow hunting and it just isn't my thing. I've killed several animals at 40-50 feet or so.
I've also watched the biggest muley I could have legally shot and several nice bulls walk because they were beyond what I was positive I could kill them at.

people act like "long range" guys are one dimensional.
maybe some are, I bet most aren't, it's just what the situation calls for.

I appreciate the response. This is the kind of discussion I was hoping for. Being honest, I am able to shoot steel really pretty well out to 800 yards or more even with my old factory rem 721 30-06... but I am not a good rifle hunter. I have missed more whitetail deer than I care to admit, but most often because I was in a tree stand & I just don't like shooting a rifle out of a tree stand. I love bow hunting, and I am much more confident with my bow, because I practice with my bow year round. I practice with my rifle a few times per year max, and somehow my hunting situations have been nothing like my practice situations. I need to fix that for sure. I have an area I would like to do an early rifle hunt in CO since I have some points saved up, but I also want to do a pronghorn hunt in WY, so I want to get good at rifle hunting as well. I feel like the way I would hunt out west would be more suited to how I shoot than this midwest whitetail hunting I do. I have done much better shooting from the ground.

I am curious, why was that buck at 485 yards busting you? was it a wind shift? terrain made you visible? what happened?

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

When I travel out West to hunt, I have very significant (to me) investments in time and money to make it happen every precious few years. As a result, I handload for all my rifles and practice at longer ranges with solid equipment to increase the probability of filling a tag in additional scenarios. I get in excellent physical shape before my hunts for the same reason. While I hope for close shots, the Boy Scout in me wants to always be prepared for a longer shot.

Its only a "ethics" argument if people want to push their ethics on others.

At home, I whitetail hunt with a bow, muzzleloader, and occassionally a rifle. Shots greater than 150 yards where I hunt are exceptionally rare. Regardless, I practice to guarantee confidence at these ranges as well.

 

[robby denning]

So when you are rifle hunting, is it generally a spot and stalk situation where you are moving in on a bedded buck? would you then set up in the first spot inside of 400 that you can get crosshairs on the buck? or do you the look for closer set up options and assess the odds of getting there and still having success?

I haven't killed a bedded buck with rifle in since at least 2014 (and I'd hit that one standing then he went and bedded down and i shot him again).

I don't think it matters if spotNstalk, ambush, still-hunt, tracking, once you're in range (your range), it's time. If you think you need to keep getting closer, I would say you weren't really in range.

I don't want to overthink it.

I understand your bow example and ya, 30 yards is better than 50+ unless I spook the buck trying to get from 50 to 30. If I can shoot 50, then it's time to shoot. Less chance of spooking him. Don't ask me how I know LOL

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

I appreciate the response. This is the kind of discussion I was hoping for. Being honest, I am able to shoot steel really pretty well out to 800 yards or more even with my old factory rem 721 30-06... but I am not a good rifle hunter. I have missed more whitetail deer than I care to admit, but most often because I was in a tree stand & I just don't like shooting a rifle out of a tree stand. I love bow hunting, and I am much more confident with my bow, because I practice with my bow year round. I practice with my rifle a few times per year max, and somehow my hunting situations have been nothing like my practice situations. I need to fix that for sure. I have an area I would like to do an early rifle hunt in CO since I have some points saved up, but I also want to do a pronghorn hunt in WY, so I want to get good at rifle hunting as well. I feel like the way I would hunt out west would be more suited to how I shoot than this midwest whitetail hunting I do. I have done much better shooting from the ground.

I am curious, why was that buck at 485 yards busting you? was it a wind shift? terrain made you visible? what happened?

I'm also from the Midwest, and whitetail hunting over ag, field edges, draws, and wood lots with bow or gun is not even close to the same prep as hunting out West. To become a better rifle hunter, you need to devote the same amount of practice with your rifle as you do your bow, not less. If you have the time and money, sign up for the next Shoot 2 Hunt class with the guys. This is essentially Western hunting boot camp and you'll learn everything you need to know to be a better rifle hunter so long as you put in the time practicing at home.

Until you've hunted out West, you won't truly appreciate the "why" regardless of the level of detail provided, because you're coming at the question from a position of skepticism, not true curiosity.

 

[WI in the west]

I look at it like theres my max yardage which changes every day based on weather, terrain, and shooting positions avaliable
My magic number seems to be 300 when im planning out where to get in position for a shot. Unless theres hurricane winds i feel ill make that shot every time. Id only go closer if i think its extremely low risk of bunping the animal, like thick timber or a ditch i can be out of sight in and the winds good.
If i deem i cant get to that 300 mark then i start weighing in factors like the wind and what kind of shooting position i can be in and even what animal your hunting.
at the end of the day though no matter what distances you decide on if you set up for the shot and it doesnt feel right you just have to reevaluate the situation and risks vs rewards of getting closer or wait for another day. A couple times in my out west experiences i set up for a shot and deemed i need to get closer. I just reevaluated the situation from there. Sometimes your option is to move ungodly slow in the open to get to a new terrain feature. Or sometimes the animal just wins that day.

 

[longrangelead]

I appreciate the response. This is the kind of discussion I was hoping for. Being honest, I am able to shoot steel really pretty well out to 800 yards or more even with my old factory rem 721 30-06... but I am not a good rifle hunter. I have missed more whitetail deer than I care to admit, but most often because I was in a tree stand & I just don't like shooting a rifle out of a tree stand. I love bow hunting, and I am much more confident with my bow, because I practice with my bow year round. I practice with my rifle a few times per year max, and somehow my hunting situations have been nothing like my practice situations. I need to fix that for sure. I have an area I would like to do an early rifle hunt in CO since I have some points saved up, but I also want to do a pronghorn hunt in WY, so I want to get good at rifle hunting as well. I feel like the way I would hunt out west would be more suited to how I shoot than this midwest whitetail hunting I do. I have done much better shooting from the ground.

I am curious, why was that buck at 485 yards busting you? was it a wind shift? terrain made you visible? what happened?

practice like you hunt if possible can't be over stated!

practice on small targets much further than you would on an animal.

That buck was bedding on an acre or so in a little pocket right above a main access trail. I bet 100 people had walked by him with a rifle in their hand.
It is a 5 yr old burn so it's wide open but brushy. He figured out most people passed through before light or well after light and would come up the hill in the deepest ravine, cross the trail and get up on a little brushy bench and hide right at shooting light.

I was glassing it hard as it got light one day and caught him. I thought I could get to a better spot to shoot. (trying to get the wife a buck)He saw me walk about 10 feet and his tail went up and away he went. (mountain whitetail in a muley overlap area)

I saw him 3 other times but no shot, I had him figured out though. he wasn't huge, he was smart though so I wanted to outsmart him. The only way was a long ambush.

He came up in the same place and stopped in the same place above the trail before ducking in the brush. That's where I got him.