The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom

[JGRaider]

That's already been addressed a few times in this thread.

Romans 1:20
New International Version
For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—His eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

If human beings do not "work out" the basic nature of God from what is seen in creation, and seek Him from there, they are simply "without excuse." They are willfully ignoring the obvious. God insists that He has made it plain to human reasoning and that to decide otherwise is to suppress the truth we know by nature.

 

[dylanvb]

“For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness,”
‭‭I Corinthians‬ ‭1‬:‭22‬-‭23‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[Shortschaf]

My main problem with Christianity is the belief (or whatever it’s called) that anybody who isn’t a Christian goes to hell.

I have a hard time with this too, but I have an equally hard time believing that all people will deserve heaven too

For the record, the church does NOT pretend to know that anyone has gone to Hell.
It does claim to know that certain people's go to heaven (like saints). But--not a safe bet in my opinion to knowingly live a life of sin, banking on God's mercy to save us from hell either

Our human idea of fairness may not agree with God's plan for justice.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

I have a hard time with this too, but I have an equally hard time believing that all people will deserve heaven too

For the record, the church does NOT pretend to know that anyone has gone to Hell.
It does claim to know that certain people's go to heaven (like saints). But--not a safe bet in my opinion to knowingly live a life of sin, banking on God's mercy to save us from hell either

Our human idea of fairness may not agree with God's plan for justice.

I know some terrible “Christians”, it would be sort of a shame if they got into heaven while some decent people who simply didn’t know about Christianity were condemned for eternity.

That’s just one thing though….

A few years back I was out fishing with a buddy who happened to be religious, as we started talking, he told me the world was only like 6 or 7 thousand years old and that all the biology and geology and other science stuff was lies, he then went on to talk about how god put dinosaur bones in the ground to test us.

There was more but as the conversation went on, I felt like I was in the twilight zone, I couldn’t believe this guy was serious, it was the craziest shit I’d ever heard in my life. But kept getting more and more ridiculous as he talked.

I couldn’t even try to not be shocked.

 

[JGRaider]

I have a hard time with this too, but I have an equally hard time believing that all people will deserve heaven too

For the record, the church does NOT pretend to know that anyone has gone to Hell.
It does claim to know that certain people's go to heaven (like saints). But--not a safe bet in my opinion to knowingly live a life of sin, banking on God's mercy to save us from hell either

Our human idea of fairness may not agree with God's plan for justice.

The Bible distinguishes those who have eternal life from those who do not: “He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life” (1 John 5:12). It all goes back to faith. Those who believe in Christ are made the children of God (John 1:12). Those who accept Jesus’ sacrifice as the payment for their sins and who believe in His resurrection are going to heaven. Those who reject Christ are not. “Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son” (John 3:18).

 

[JGRaider]

I know some terrible “Christians”, it would be sort of a shame if they got into heaven while some decent people who simply didn’t know about Christianity were condemned for eternity.

That’s just one thing though….

A few years back I was out fishing with a buddy who happened to be religious, as we started talking, he told me the world was only like 6 or 7 thousand years old and that all the biology and geology and other science stuff was lies, he then went on to talk about how god put dinosaur bones in the ground to test us.

There was more but as the conversation went on, I felt like I was in the twilight zone, I couldn’t believe this guy was serious, it was the craziest shit I’d ever heard in my life. But kept getting more and more ridiculous as he talked.

I couldn’t even try to joy be shocked.

Only God knows the heart, not you, me, or any other human being. Sounds like you are confused between a man being religious, and a man being a Christian. Religion is man made and not even God is thrilled with that. He's only interested in a personal relationship with those he created.

 

[eddielasvegas]

For those of you who are non-believers and cannot comprehend the power of prayer, I offer you THIS as evidence (you know, because evidence is where it's at) that prayer does work.


Eddie

 

[Shortschaf]

The Bible distinguishes those who have eternal life from those who do not: “He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life” (1 John 5:12). It all goes back to faith. Those who believe in Christ are made the children of God (John 1:12). Those who accept Jesus’ sacrifice as the payment for their sins and who believe in His resurrection are going to heaven. Those who reject Christ are not. “Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son” (John 3:18).

The church does not know if we are given an ultimatum at the bitter end to choose. It is a slim hope, but a hope that we are free to have if it helps us move on from that sticking point

I personally don't believe hell is empty

 

[Shortschaf]

I know some terrible “Christians”, it would be sort of a shame if they got into heaven while some decent people who simply didn’t know about Christianity were condemned for eternity.

That’s just one thing though….

A few years back I was out fishing with a buddy who happened to be religious, as we started talking, he told me the world was only like 6 or 7 thousand years old and that all the biology and geology and other science stuff was lies, he then went on to talk about how god put dinosaur bones in the ground to test us.

There was more but as the conversation went on, I felt like I was in the twilight zone, I couldn’t believe this guy was serious, it was the craziest shit I’d ever heard in my life. But kept getting more and more ridiculous as he talked.

I couldn’t even try to not be shocked.

Hahaha yeah please don't judge us all by this cover.
Rest assured you can be Christian and believe dinosaurs walked the earth millions of years ago.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

Hahaha yeah please don't judge us all by this cover.
Rest assured you can be Christian and believe dinosaurs walked the earth millions of years ago.

I felt like I was listening to coast to coast AM with art bell or something crazy like that. I’d honestly never heard anything like it.

He was also convinced that god killed a unicorn in Genesis to cloth people or something like that.

I really couldn’t make this up if I tried.

 

[JackButler]

"swine" in scripture is referring to those who have zero interest in learning the truth about God no matter what. That is the perfect description of several here, but that obviously flies right over your head.

That seems like a reach. Does it actually say that? Or just you trying to justify calling people swine that have different religious views?

 

[JackButler]

I have a hard time with this too, but I have an equally hard time believing that all people will deserve heaven too

For the record, the church does NOT pretend to know that anyone has gone to Hell.
It does claim to know that certain people's go to heaven (like saints). But--not a safe bet in my opinion to knowingly live a life of sin, banking on God's mercy to save us from hell either

Our human idea of fairness may not agree with God's plan for justice.

Anyone not “worthy” of heaven, all those people were made the way they are by…god. I’m not condoning the things he did, but whatever was “wrong” with Ted Bundy, he was created by god.

 

[Plainsman79]

Anyone not “worthy” of heaven, all those people were made the way they are by…god. I’m not condoning the things he did, but whatever was “wrong” with Ted Bundy, he was created by god.

Please see the prior conversations about the free will we are all given by God.

Hopefully it clears up your concerns.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

Anyone not “worthy” of heaven, all those people were made the way they are by…god. I’m not condoning the things he did, but whatever was “wrong” with Ted Bundy, he was created by god.

Just seems strange that a loving god would great millions and millions of people who had absolutely no chance and were doomed to hell by design.

Why would he do that?

 

[thinhorn_AK]

Please see the prior conversations about the free will we are all given by God.

Hopefully it clears up your concerns.

Are you basically just saying that people have the choice to believe in god or not??? Again, what about people who were never exposed to these ideas? Do they go to hell???

 

[JackButler]

Please see the prior conversations about the free will we are all given by God.

Hopefully it clears up your concerns.

We have free will, but what does that really mean when someone has such psychopathic tendencies? Do you think someone like Bundy even has the capacity to think through things in nearly the same way as you or I? When you see true evil, it’s obvious operating on an entirely different plane of existence than most of us.

 

[go_deep]

We have free will, but what does that really mean when someone has such psychopathic tendencies? Do you think someone like Bundy even has the capacity to think through things in nearly the same way as you or I? When you see true evil, it’s obvious operating on an entirely different plane of existence than most of us.

Maybe someone like Ted invited evil into himself?

 

[JackButler]

Maybe someone like Ted invited evil into himself?

Maybe. Why would Ted do that, but you wouldn’t make the same choice? Maybe it’s his environment he grew up in. Or maybe he’s just made different. But made by who?

 

[go_deep]

Maybe. Why would Ted do that, but you wouldn’t make the same choice? Maybe it’s his environment he grew up in. Or maybe he’s just made different. But made by who?

Sounds like a whole lot of questions likely neither you or I can answer, but we can sure answer those same questions about ourselves.

 

[JackButler]

Sounds like a whole lot of questions likely neither you or I can answer, but we can sure answer those same questions about ourselves.

Agree. But I guess that’s my point, if someone is built completely different from you and I, are they held to the same standards. I didn’t kill a bunch of college co-Ed’s like Bundy. But then again, that’s not hard for me since I have zero desire to harm anyone that isn’t harming me first.