The CWD scam

[RockAndSage]

Well they’re wrong if they’re talking about coyotes. There may be more studies and I see one on Mtn Lions that says it passes but at 96% less quantities. It passes through the digestive tract of coyotes so I would bet it goes through wolves. Maybe it prevents the direct contact but it doesn’t prevent indirect contact. Maybe a deer is not as likely to be where predator scents occur so they may be less likely to come into contact with it, but it still doesn’t denature or inactivate the protein in any way from what I know. I see another paper on scavengers that seems to conclude crows pass it through. Probably will be more research on that specific topic in the future. I’m surprised there’s not more especially from the normal anti hunting players.

I could definitely be mistaken on this, but something in the wayback of my mind is that one the theories about CWD is that it infects prey, makes them easy for wolves and other predators to eat, and the prions pass through the predators to re-enter the environment and infect more deer. Not dissimilar to cats and toxoplasmosis gondii, in how it infects rats and makes them easier to catch by way of making them less fearful of the smell of cats.

 

[brocksw]

I could definitely be mistaken on this, but something in the wayback of my mind is that one the theories about CWD is that it infects prey, makes them easy for wolves and other predators to eat, and the prions pass through the predators to re-enter the environment and infect more deer. Not dissimilar to cats and toxoplasmosis gondii, in how it infects rats and makes them easier to catch by way of making them less fearful of the smell of cats.

Prions can remain infectious after passing through a predator, but I believe they’ve found their digestive tracts(especially cats) can degrade CWD prions. So they might not be shedding enough in feces to cause substantial spread.

The Guts of Predatory Cats Can Destroy CWD Prions

The prions that cause chronic wasting disease in deer are nearly indestructible. So it's good news to learn cat guts are their mortal enemy.

deerassociation.com

 

[elkhunter505]

I could definitely be mistaken on this, but something in the wayback of my mind is that one the theories about CWD is that it infects prey, makes them easy for wolves and other predators to eat, and the prions pass through the predators to re-enter the environment and infect more deer. Not dissimilar to cats and toxoplasmosis gondii, in how it infects rats and makes them easier to catch by way of making them less fearful of the smell of cats.

Good question. I started reading this and immediately went to Toxo but then you brought it up. I’d have to read into it more but I have no knowledge of that. It would make sense particularly when deer are wasting away, but seems like that WI study posted up above shows it shifts the mortality to CWD. You’d think if they were becoming more vulnerable that it would be manifesting in higher harvest and predation rates.

 

[ScreamingPotato]

What you’re failing to understand is CWD is a prion. Prions are nothing but a misfolded protein. They DONT mutate, adapt, or change in any way whatsoever. As such there is ZERO chance the CWD prion ever infects humans, period. Prions don’t work that way. To cross a species barrier a pathogen would need to mutate and adapt and Prions most definitely do not.

The “may, perhaps, possibly, we think” type verbiage used by CWD profiteers, oh i mean “researchers” use that verbiage to keep the easily alarmed scared. Why? Because if the public is scared their never ending funding continues. They ever make a determination CWD is no big deal, as it clearly isn’t, CWD funding dries up and their careers die.

You’ve taken the bait hook line and sinker. To date all that supposedly awesome research you cited in WI has proven absolutely nothing about CWD. They still can’t even determine if it’s detrimental to the Whitetail herd. They have no idea how to stop it, or even slow it down. They are quite literally no further along in understanding CWD than they wete 20 years ago. Yep, that’s some amazing work right there! Yet another fine example of tax payer dollars being wasted.

lmao dude... just close this thread and don't come back you clearly have eaten a deer and caught foot-in-mouth disease.

 

[brocksw]

For anyone interested in listening to a man who’s studied prions (in both humans and animals) for 25 years. Meet Dr. Jason Bartz. He talks prion history, prion biology, strains, host range expansion, and more…and he’s a hunter.

Prions w/ Dr. Jason Bartz

Podcast Episode · North Dakota BHA Podcast · 01/15/2025 · 1h 46m

podcasts.apple.com

 

[rclouse79]

No, it’s wanton waste. Killing animals only to landfill them is pathetic.

If someone is afraid of CWD or any of the other diseases wild animals carry, they should quit hunting.

You eat what you kill is the most basic tenet of hunting.

I do eat what I kill, but thanks for the sermon.

 

[Predator_SD]

lmao dude... just close this thread and don't come back you clearly have eaten a deer and caught foot-in-mouth disease.

Man, what an intellect. I’m DEFINITELY listening to you on all things Prion related.

Extremely compelling argument on why we should all fear CWD.

 

[Predator_SD]

I do eat what I kill, but thanks for the sermon.

Thanks, that’s great man.

But sadly a lot of people apparently don’t. They should probably stop hunting then don’t ya think? There are wanton waste laws in every state in the union so if youre not intending to eat what you shoot you shouldn’t hunt. Am i missing something?

 

[Hnthrdr]

Well they’re wrong if they’re talking about coyotes. There may be more studies and I see one on Mtn Lions that says it passes but at 96% less quantities. It passes through the digestive tract of coyotes so I would bet it goes through wolves. Maybe it prevents the direct contact but it doesn’t prevent indirect contact. Maybe a deer is not as likely to be where predator scents occur so they may be less likely to come into contact with it, but it still doesn’t denature or inactivate the protein in any way from what I know. I see another paper on scavengers that seems to conclude crows pass it through. Probably will be more research on that specific topic in the future. I’m surprised there’s not more especially from the normal anti hunting players.

I believe you I was more skeptical of cats and dogs having the cure all for cwd, which conveniently was a huge part of the, “well let’s make all cats, really all predators non game animals so nature will manage itself “ argument

 

[Hnthrdr]

I’m in the camp that if I test and I know I will not feed that meat to my wife and kids or co workers… I do think some of the heavy handed management where they just kill all deer seems a bit much I grew up and hunt a lot in the ground zero area of cwd… they issue essentially almost unlimited tags for those units and there are very few deer left compared to what they could hold. I’m not sure what the right answer would love if they could find a cure. I find the discovery of the whole thing pretty suspicious though how it came from the same facility they were messing with scrapie pos sheep at. Who knows would love some breakthrough science on the matter

 

[elkhunter505]

I believe you I was more skeptical of cats and dogs having the cure all for cwd, which conveniently was a huge part of the, “well let’s make all cats, really all predators non game animals so nature will manage itself “ argument

Yeah I mean it’s an argument they’ll cling to. I think it’s a trash argument because we are part of the ecosystem too and that should be enough to justify hunting and being a part of nature. I hate the anti hunting push too. I just wish they would stop using predators/predator intros as a way around it and just put their intentions out front. They want to act like it’s for the animals but it’s not. You drop those predators on the landscape with no second chances and no ability to learn over time. They’re double or tripling their mortality rates while acting like it’s for the species.

 

[elkhunter505]

Who knows would love some breakthrough science on the matter

I can tell you people are actively working on this around the clock as I know some of them. We’ll see how long until the next breakthrough.

 

[brocksw]

Yeah I mean it’s an argument they’ll cling to. I think it’s a trash argument because we are part of the ecosystem too and that should be enough to justify hunting and being a part of nature. I hate the anti hunting push too. I just wish they would stop using predators/predator intros as a way around it and just put their intentions out front. They want to act like it’s for the animals but it’s not. You drop those predators on the landscape with no second chances and no ability to learn over time. They’re double or tripling their mortality rates while acting like it’s for the species.

I agree.

Lions and Prions and Deer Demise

Background Contagious prion diseases – scrapie of sheep and chronic wasting disease of several species in the deer family – give rise to epidemics that seem capable of compromising host population viability. Despite this prospect, the ecological consequences of prion disease epidemics in natural...

journals.plos.org

"Remarkably high infection rates sustained in the face of intense predation show that even seemingly complete ecosystems may offer little resistance to the spread and persistence of contagious prion diseases."

"Selectively removing infected individuals from a population should be an effective disease control strategy [7], [11]–[13], but under conditions where predation exacerbates pathogen transmission prevalence can be elevated paradoxically [14]–[16]. At best, selective predation did not appear to be controlling prion transmission at Table Mesa. Although prion-infected deer were much more likely to be killed by mountain lions than uninfected deer (relative risk = 3.67, 95% CI 1.08–12.45), prevalence and incidence of prion infection were still remarkably high: about one fourth of the adult deer in our sample were infected when first captured, and about one fourth of the susceptible adult deer became infected annually."

"Regardless, our data show that prion infection in a natural population can surge seemingly unabated even in the face of intense selective predation."

Good write up from Wildlife Federation

Predator Impacts on the Spread of Chronic Wasting Disease - The National Wildlife Federation Blog

There are several challenges and considerations in making predictions about the impacts of predation on the prevalence and spread of CWD.

blog.nwf.org

 

[Predator_SD]

You do know that humans can be infected from eating BSE positive meat? It's a prion that infects cattle and humans can get it. I know CWD hasn't crossed yet. But BSE hadn't either. Until it did

Then humans were ALWAYS vulnerable to it. Thats how prions work. BSE didn’t change or mutate suddenly infecting humans it always could. You realize Prions aren’t even considered a living thing. They have zero ability to adapt, evolve, mutate to be able to exploit a new species.

The prion that causes CWD does not cause illness in humans. As such, it never will.

Now, in light of that if you are still afraid of that which you don’t understand i see nothing wrong with that. If you’re afraid to eat CWD tainted meat nothing wrong with that either i couldn’t care less. But if that’s the case you should stop hunting that’s all. Why would you hunt if you believe CWD is such a threat?

 

[Predator_SD]

I can tell you people are actively working on this around the clock as I know some of them. We’ll see how long until the next breakthrough.

They should probably take a look at how much taxpayer dollars are going into that work?

After almost 70 years i’d like to see more for my money than, “we aren’t sure how it affects the herd, not real sure how to slow it down, really think maybe it might be bad but not really sure, we’re guessing this is how it spreads, we anticipate it might cause this but not sure how long that will take, etc”

In all for research and asking questions but there needs to be results and accountability for dollars spent.

The worst counties in WI, some of the highest prevalence rates in the entire country, and the deer numbers are INCREASING. And that’s straight from the WI DNR data. So it would appear if you trust data from researchers CWD is harming individual deer on a case by case basis but it is NOT harming the herd as a whole. So really same as any other thing causing deer mortality out there. Best course of action really just may be let nature do what it does and ignore it.

 

[Predator_SD]

Wisconsin’s preliminary data from a 4 year GPS collar study that collared 1,082 deer.
View attachment 861652
View attachment 861656

This isn’t data, it’s speculation. The word “likely” being the key world here. The guy is predicting deer population will go down at 30% prevalence.

The ACTUAL data show that this is not what’s happening just so you know. Deer populations in all of the WI counties with MUCH higher CWD prevalence than 30% are going up. Some of these counties have reached prevalence rates as high as 50-60% actually. Yet no population declines.

 

[elkhunter505]

They should probably take a look at how much taxpayer dollars are going into that work?

After almost 70 years i’d like to see more for my money than, “we aren’t sure how it affects the herd, not real sure how to slow it down, really think maybe it might be bad but not really sure, we’re guessing this is how it spreads, we anticipate it might cause this but not sure how long that will take, etc”

In all for research and asking questions but there needs to be results and accountability for dollars spent.

The worst counties in WI, some of the highest prevalence rates in the entire country, and the deer numbers are INCREASING. And that’s straight from the WI DNR data. So it would appear if you trust data from researchers CWD is harming individual deer on a case by case basis but it is NOT harming the herd as a whole. So really same as any other thing causing deer mortality out there. Best course of action really just may be let nature do what it does and ignore it.

Yeah, as I said earlier, they have continued giving hunters the option to harvest more deer, and the public has not increased their harvest and even in some cases have actually seen lower harvest rates as the graph that was recently posted shows. You can’t think about the population as a whole without looking at how much of that population is being harvested. Harvest rates are close to half what they used to be.

People have been given the opportunity to participate in science and have chosen not to shoot more deer despite recommendations to do so to lower prevalence rates. If the public chooses not to follow scientific management recommendations, as they frequently do, the people doing the research have no way to implement their recommendations unless they contract government shooters. If the scientific recommendations are not followed, then the science is not to blame.

If you got a bone to pick about government waste, that’s your prerogative, but don’t conflate that with science not being correct if the agency has given the public every opportunity to participate in that science-based management and they have not taken advantage of it. Then if the agency recommends density reductions through culling, the public has no soapbox to stand in if they have refused to participate in the science-based management that the public continues to call for everywhere just because the science doesn’t line up with their personal opinion.

 

[Predator_SD]

That’s not true. There are something like 10 different Prion strains for CWD. They’ve isolated a new strain out of the 132LL genotype elk and a new strain out of H95 genotype whitetails.

Novel Strain of the Chronic Wasting Disease Agent Isolated From Experimentally Inoculated Elk With LL132 Prion Protein - Scientific Reports

Chronic wasting disease (CWD) is a fatal, progressive disease that affects cervid species, including Rocky mountain elk (Cervus elaphus nelsoni). There are 2 allelic variants in the elk prion protein gene: L132 (leucine) and M132 (methionine). Following experimental oral challenge with the CWD...

www.nature.com

New and distinct chronic wasting disease strains associated with cervid polymorphism at codon 116 of the Prnp gene

Author summary Chronic wasting disease belongs to the family of prion diseases. It is considered the most contagious prion disease and the only one that affects free ranging wildlife. The disease range is expanding in North America and Northern Europe. This work describes the emergence and...

journals.plos.org

Deer Prion Proteins Modulate the Emergence and Adaptation of Chronic Wasting Disease Strains - PMC

Transmission of chronic wasting disease (CWD) between cervids is influenced by the primary structure of the host cellular prion protein (PrPC). In white-tailed deer, PRNP alleles encode the polymorphisms Q95 G96 (wild type [wt]), Q95 S96 (referred ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Examining PRNP gene frequencies and ‘resistance’ to chronic wasting disease

Multiple studies have demonstrated that various alleles of the cervid prion protein (PRNP) gene affect chronic wasting disease (CWD) progression.

www.usgs.gov

There’s more, but there’s a few resources…



Population impacts in Iowa county Wisconsin after 20+ years. I’ve talked to landowners who live in that area. The impacts are real and landowners are seeing them.

Iowa county:
No major EHD outbreaks, no bears or wolves, no culling since 2007, and hunter harvest is half of what it was in 2011. The best whitetail habitat in the world and the population is still falling. Maybe it’s because of a sustained 25% prevalence of CWD….
View attachment 861639


View attachment 861640

I talked to a hunter in neighboring southern Richland county(borders Iowa county to the North) who has seen significantly lower deer numbers and significantly reduced age structure. North end of Richland county hasn’t seen the population impacts yet, but the landowners I’ve talked to there report high prevalence and fully expect those impacts to start

Your interpretation of the data is flawed or intentionally convoluted.

And you state you “talked to people who live there”. I live in Barneveld WI, its in Iowa Cty. I’ve hunted the area since the early 90s so if you talked to someone i probably know them it’s a pretty small town. But whoever it was misinformed you because we did just have an EHD outbreak. And had another in 2012 in Iowa Cty. I know the area intimately there are always EHD pockets around SW WI.

I will show you the deer population trends and the prevalence rates of the three counties with the highest prevalence rates in the country, Iowa, Sauk, and Richland County. These counties are WAY higher than 30% prevalence. We are talking 50-60%. Despite the extremely high prevalence rates there is no decline in deer population. Not even Iowa Cty it’s remained stable despite CWD and EHD. Just the data without some “researcher” interpretation in which they state they “predict, anticipate, etc”. Just the data, YOU interpret it.

Iowa Cty CWD Prevelence, between 50-60%



Iowa Cty Population Trends (Stable)



Richland Cty CWD Prevelence, about 60%


Richland Cty Population Trends (Increasing)



Sauk Cty CWD Prevelence, 50-60%




Sauk Cty population trends (Increasing)




Finally, just for good measure let’s add the StateWide population trend. As you can see it’s a nice steady increase despite the entire state having varying prevelence rates of CWD. There is not a single county CWD is not present yet the deer population just grows and grows.




So please, @brocksw @elkhunter505 interpret this data and provide a sound argument explaining how you believe CWD is harming the deer herd or causing population declines in WI?

I’d like to hear your interpretation of this data as well @ScreamingPotato . But i’ll remind you it’s not my data it’s compiled by the WI DNR. I’m just providing what they’ve compiled for you to interpret for me, thanks.

 

[brocksw]

Your interpretation of the data is flawed or intentionally convoluted.

And you state you “talked to people who live there”. I live in Barneveld WI, its in Iowa Cty. I’ve hunted the area since the early 90s so if you talked to someone i probably know them it’s a pretty small town. But whoever it was misinformed you because we did just have an EHD outbreak. And had another in 2012 in Iowa Cty. I know the area intimately there are always EHD pockets around SW WI.

I will show you the deer population trends and the prevalence rates of the three counties with the highest prevalence rates in the country, Iowa, Sauk, and Richland County. These counties are WAY higher than 30% prevalence. We are talking 50-60%. Despite the extremely high prevalence rates there is no decline in deer population. Not even Iowa Cty it’s remained stable despite CWD and EHD. Just the data without some “researcher” interpretation in which they state they “predict, anticipate, etc”. Just the data, YOU interpret it.

Iowa Cty CWD Prevelence, between 50-60%

View attachment 861744

Iowa Cty Population Trends (Stable)

View attachment 861745

Richland Cty CWD Prevelence, about 60%
View attachment 861746

Richland Cty Population Trends (Increasing)

View attachment 861747

Sauk Cty CWD Prevelence, 50-60%


View attachment 861749

Sauk Cty population trends (Increasing)


View attachment 861750

Finally, just for good measure let’s add the StateWide population trend. As you can see it’s a nice steady increase despite the entire state having varying prevelence rates of CWD. There is not a single county CWD is not present yet the deer population just grows and grows.


View attachment 861751

So please, @brocksw @elkhunter505 interpret this data and provide a sound argument explaining how you believe CWD is harming the deer herd or causing population declines?

First I would say, State wide population trends mean nothing when the overwhelming majority of CWD is in SW Wisconsin. In other words, A few cases in a county outside of the core outbreak zone is not going to impact populations and is completely irrelevant to the topic of population impacts.


But more to your question about data, I think the data paints a pretty clear picture and I predict Richland county will follow suit with Iowa counties decline. As will the other highly infected counties. Parts of Richland county already are, according to people I know who live and hunt there. Based on the positive tests coming out of Richland county that should be no surprise. But I think there’s little doubt about Iowa counties population decline being caused by CWD. But CWD isn’t done there yet, it’s still there, still working. Where will it level off? That I don’t know. No one does.

As the research has always said, the longer the disease stays at high prevalence, the more impacts will be seen and felt on the ground.

The podcast below: A hunter from southern Richland county has reported significant impacts to deer populations and age class. Again, with no EHD, no significant predators, no culling, and a relatively flat hunter harvest in county wide in Richland county (unlike Iowa county where it’s half of what it was in 2011). Yet, the other individual in northern Richland county still has a robust deer herd with high prevalence. But he expects that to start diminishing. Again, as has always been stated with CWD. There are no dramatic die offs all at once. Just a slow burn, peeling deer off. Well, if you believe the “experts” anyway.

When the Evidence is Staring you in the Face

Podcast Episode · North Dakota BHA Podcast · 03/04/2025 · 1h 55m

podcasts.apple.com

The two guys in that podcast live, hunt, and/or work in Richland and Iowa county. They can testify to no significant EHD outbreaks in SW Wisconsin. A few here and there, but nothing wide spread that would lead to any negative population impacts. A couple hundred deer in total across SW WI isn’t a significant EHD outbreak by any stretch of the imagination. It’s barely even worth mentioning. So even if the maps below for Iowa county EHD cases are off by 100 times, that amounts to nothing.




Both of the individuals in that podcast report seeing sick deer and deer populations being more significantly impacted the more you move south towards Iowa county. One of them describes a situation in Iowa county where in a 5 month period a landowner got a total of 10 pictures of deer on his trail cameras(of the same 4 deer) and that property is carpeted with seedling oaks. Some of the best whitetail habitat in the world, 4 deer and 10 pictures from summer to mid fall. And there’s no way you are able to have seedling oaks like that with a robust deer population in the area.

They both fully expect population impacts to start showing up more in the surrounding counties the longer the disease stays at high prevalence. And like I mentioned previously, one of them is already seeing those impacts on his family’s land and the surrounding neighbors, and he works for a trail camera company and has data points all over the area.

Like the recent Wisconsin research suggests, once prevalence is allowed to grow and persist, population impacts will be felt. As has been documented every time they slap GPS collars on animals and track mortality.

In Wisconsin’s case they collared over 1,000 deer. I think that’s a pretty good glimpse into what’s happening to sick deer.







As a side note, I also called and spoke with the Outfitter in the article below, you should try telling him CWD doesn’t have population impacts. He had to shut his deer outfitting operation down because of a lack of deer. When I asked him what he thinks about people like you saying it doesn’t impact populations or it’s a conspiracy, or generally trying to deny reality, he laughed and said “well, you should tell those !%*#*?%* to come down to where I live.”


And the GPS collar study mentioned in that article, 9 out of 10 bucks and 15 out of 30 does were dead inside of 15 months. They reported very little difference in winter survival in collared animals between 2023 the 2024 winters(see email below), so it wasn’t winter that killed the deer. Not a single collared deer was hunter harvested for the deer collared in 2023. So it wasn’t hunter harvest. I’ll be anxious to see the testing results when the data gets released. He did say that the landowners in the study area are all reporting the same thing as the outfitter in the article. Fewer deer. I’m sure it’s absolutely anything other than CWD….

The email I got when I asked about the winter survival:


I also talked to some folks at the WY Game and Fish, they confirmed and said minimal winter die off that far east of the Wyoming Range where the big die off occurred.

As another side note, one of the owners of this site did a podcast with Cody Robbin’s from Saskatchewan. They talked about CWD and the 80% prevalence they’re experiencing up there. What did he report? The opposite of a nothing burger like you suggest. Lower deer numbers and significantly impacted age structure. The conservation officers I spoke with in Saskatchewan say significantly lower deer numbers in South Saskatchewan and sick end stage CWD deer reported on the regular.

Now, let me pause here. Because I think anyone can see it is obvious nothing I or anyone else can say will change your mind. And I’ve dealt with plenty of the CWD denier crowd and all the variations in flavor. But it seems pretty clear to me that the more time that passes, the more it appears that the wildlife managers (biologists, veterinarians, CWD researchers) who have been warning us about CWD, were right. They have been telling us that the insidious nature of this disease means it will take decades for it to slowly build within a herd and in turn negatively impact the deer populations. And here we are, every year more and more people are reporting seeing sick deer and noticing changes to their deer populations. More and more GPS collar mortality data across the country backing that up. Yet, some just refuse to believe it’s possible, refuse to believe that what they’ve been telling us is coming true right before our eyes.

So while someone like you can point to the Wisconsin deer trends from the last 10-20 years and say “all is good”, the next 10-20 years will be much more telling. And if I’m picking a side on who’s going to be right, it ain’t going to be your side.

But by all means, keep on keeping on…

 

[Predator_SD]

First I would say, State wide population trends mean nothing when the overwhelming majority of CWD is in SW Wisconsin. In other words, A few cases in a county outside of the core outbreak zone is not going to impact populations and is completely irrelevant to the topic of population impacts.
View attachment 861761

But more to your question about data, I think the data paints a pretty clear picture and I predict Richland county will follow suit with Iowa counties decline. As will the other highly infected counties. Parts of Richland county already are, according to people I know who live and hunt there. Based on the positive tests coming out of Richland county that should be no surprise. But I think there’s little doubt about Iowa counties population decline being caused by CWD. But CWD isn’t done there yet, it’s still there, still working. Where will it level off? That I don’t know. No one does.

As the research has always said, the longer the disease stays at high prevalence, the more impacts will be seen and felt on the ground.

The podcast below: A hunter from southern Richland county has reported significant impacts to deer populations and age class. Again, with no EHD, no significant predators, no culling, and a relatively flat hunter harvest in county wide in Richland county (unlike Iowa county where it’s half of what it was in 2011). Yet, the other individual in northern Richland county still has a robust deer herd with high prevalence. But he expects that to start diminishing. Again, as has always been stated with CWD. There are no dramatic die offs all at once. Just a slow burn, peeling deer off. Well, if you believe the “experts” anyway.

When the Evidence is Staring you in the Face

Podcast Episode · North Dakota BHA Podcast · 03/04/2025 · 1h 55m

podcasts.apple.com

The two guys in that podcast live, hunt, and/or work in Richland and Iowa county. They can testify to no significant EHD outbreaks in SW Wisconsin. A few here and there, but nothing wide spread that would lead to any negative population impacts. A couple hundred deer in total across SW WI isn’t a significant EHD outbreak by any stretch of the imagination. It’s barely even worth mentioning. So even if the maps below for Iowa county EHD cases are off by 100 times, that amounts to nothing.

View attachment 861762
View attachment 861763

Both of the individuals in that podcast report seeing sick deer and deer populations being more significantly impacted the more you move south towards Iowa county. One of them describes a situation in Iowa county where in a 5 month period a landowner got a total of 10 pictures of deer on his trail cameras(of the same 4 deer) and that property is carpeted with seedling oaks. Some of the best whitetail habitat in the world, 4 deer and 10 pictures from summer to mid fall. And there’s no way you are able to have seedling oaks like that with a robust deer population in the area.

They both fully expect population impacts to start showing up more in the surrounding counties the longer the disease stays at high prevalence. And like I mentioned previously, one of them is already seeing those impacts on his family’s land and the surrounding neighbors, and he works for a trail camera company and has data points all over the area.

Like the recent Wisconsin research suggests, once prevalence is allowed to grow and persist, population impacts will be felt. As has been documented every time they slap GPS collars on animals and track mortality.

In Wisconsin’s case they collared over 1,000 deer. I think that’s a pretty good glimpse into what’s happening to sick deer.
View attachment 861772
View attachment 861773
View attachment 861774
View attachment 861775
View attachment 861776


As a side note, I also called and spoke with the Outfitter in the article below, you should try telling him CWD doesn’t have population impacts. He had to shut his deer outfitting operation down because of a lack of deer. When I asked him what he thinks about people like you saying it doesn’t impact populations or it’s a conspiracy, or generally trying to deny reality, he laughed and said “well, you should tell those !%*#*?%* to come down to where I live.”

View attachment 861769
And the GPS collar study mentioned in that article, 9 out of 10 bucks and 15 out of 30 does were dead inside of 15 months. They reported very little difference in winter survival in collared animals between 2023 the 2024 winters(see email below), so it wasn’t winter that killed the deer. Not a single collared deer was hunter harvested for the deer collared in 2023. So it wasn’t hunter harvest. I’ll be anxious to see the testing results when the data gets released. He did say that the landowners in the study area are all reporting the same thing as the outfitter in the article. Fewer deer. I’m sure it’s absolutely anything other than CWD….

The email I got when I asked about the winter survival:
View attachment 861770

I also talked to some folks at the WY Game and Fish, they confirmed and said minimal winter die off that far east of the Wyoming Range where the big die off occurred.

As another side note, one of the owners of this site did a podcast with Cody Robbin’s from Saskatchewan. They talked about CWD and the 80% prevalence they’re experiencing up there. What did he report? The opposite of a nothing burger like you suggest. Lower deer numbers and significantly impacted age structure. The conservation officers I spoke with in Saskatchewan say significantly lower deer numbers in South Saskatchewan and sick end stage CWD deer reported on the regular.

Now, let me pause here. Because I think anyone can see it is obvious nothing I or anyone else can say will change your mind. And I’ve dealt with plenty of the CWD denier crowd and all the variations in flavor. But it seems pretty clear to me that the more time that passes, the more it appears that the wildlife managers (biologists, veterinarians, CWD researchers) who have been warning us about CWD, were right. They have been telling us that the insidious nature of this disease means it will take decades for it to slowly build within a herd and in turn negatively impact the deer populations. And here we are, every year more and more people are reporting seeing sick deer and noticing changes to their deer populations. More and more GPS collar mortality data across the country backing that up. Yet, some just refuse to believe it’s possible, refuse to believe that what they’ve been telling us is coming true right before our eyes.

So while someone like you can point to the Wisconsin deer trends from the last 10-20 years and say “all is good”, the next 10-20 years will be much more telling. And if I’m picking a side on who’s going to be right, it ain’t going to be your side.

But by all means, keep on keeping on…

Wait, so i gave you the data on THE THREE HIGHEST PREVALANCE counties, all in SW WI and your response is “statewide trends mean nothing”?

Also, all three of those counties show an INCREASE in deer population and you somehow interpret a decline in Iowa Cty? Please explain how a population trend with an increase from 18,100 on 2008 to 20,100 in 2024 is a decline? The yellow line points up overall? It’s a small overall gain which is why i called it (stable) but it’s most definitely not a decline. Please elaborate,




And what of Sauk Cty? 50+% prevelence rates and nothing but skyrocketing deer population growth there. Just glaze right over it and ignore because its impossible to twist it into “CWD is causing deer population decline”

And you then made the mistake that is the death blow to every single one of these alarmist “research” articles people love to cite. You said “I predict” Richland County populations will decline despite ZERO DATA to show that. In fact your prediction is almost irrational as the population in Richland Cty has almost doubled from 16,800 in 2007 to 30,300 in 2024.

All of that population growth despite prevelence rates between 50-60% in all those SW WI counties.

Maybe you missed i live in Iowa Cty just for perspective as you keep mentioning you “called all these people” who live and hunt there. Well, you didn’t talk to me or anyone i know.

So instead you move the goalposts once again to “predict” the world is burning. Before it was “deer numbers will decline at 30% prevelence rates”. When shown population growth in counties with the highest prevelence rates in the US (50-60%) the last 10-20 years you say it means nothing. Now its the next 10-20 years that your die offs will occur.

Yeah ok, ignore all the hard cold undoctored data and keep PREDICTING the end. Just know everyone else is moving on from this alarmist thinking based on emotions, predictions, we think, it’s possible, maybe something bad can happen.

My prediction, there will be more deer in 20 years than there are now because thats what the data shows is happening.

In the end the data doesn’t support your beliefs, the data never does. So when people lie to you in the face of facts you have to question why they would do that, what do they have to gain? Whats in it for you to keep drumming up concern and fear over CWD?