The 22 creedmoor thread

[ID_Matt]

I think your #s are off. My 22CM w 77s is a 7mph gun out to 700 yards

What BC and speed are you using? In my AB app I had to plug in 3800 FPS to get to a 0.7 wind call for 7MPH at 700 yards.

At 3100 FPS I show the 77 as a 5 mph gun and the 80 eldm as a 6/7 mph.

 

[Lawnboi]

How much consideration are you giving to the BC between the 77TMKs vs the 80ELDMs? Running them through AB the 77s are a 4mph gun for my load (1.5Mil in a 90* 10mph @ 600M and 59% WEZ on a deer) vs the 80s being a 5 almost 6mph gun (1Mil in a 90* 10mph @600M and 87% WEZ on a deer).

I want to shoot the 77s so my 223 and 22CM are shooting the same thing, but the wind advantage / hit probability of the 80s seems too big of an advantage? Does that make sense? And if it does why the cult following for the 77? Seems that hitting what you're aiming at trumps whatever incremental terminal performance might be gained.

The 80eldx and 77tmk seem to have very very similar behavior when they hit a deer at ~3k fps, which quite honestly is an amount of damage that I consider nearly too much.

The wind advantage is notable. I find when you hit a point where 1mph of wind equals .1mil (ie 400yds for your 4mph 77tmk) things become more difficult from that point on. For me there would only be upside if your rifle shoots the 80eldx.

 

[JPW13]

I think your #s are off. My 22CM w 77s is a 7mph gun out to 700 yards

really!? How fast are they going? I’m using Applied Ballistics for those calcs, but I’m sure I could be doing something wrong. Just not sure what. I’m using my chrono data over many shots and ABs bullet library and custom drag curve.

 

[Lawnboi]

Your gun number is dependent on density altitude. So that’s where some difference might be.

When assessing for it turn off AJ and spin drift.

 

[Cp004]

Same here. Rechambered tikka barrel with 88's and N560

Is this an 8 twist? What’s results did you get with 560?

 

[bcmntgoathunter.]

I think n555,n560 and n565 all will work great with the 88s....also any one else shooting the berger 80.5 full bores from their 22 creeds? Looking for as many pictures and reports as I can get on deer,hogs,black bear heck even goats and elk. African plains game info is also great

 

[justin davis]

I think n555,n560 and n565 all will work great with the 88s....also any one else shooting the berger 80.5 full bores from their 22 creeds? Looking for as many pictures and reports as I can get on deer,hogs,black bear heck even goats and elk. African plains game info is also great

I’ve been shooting the 80.5 fullbores. Have been very accurate bullet out of my gun. Have only killed javalena and coyotes with it thou

 

[Miflatlander91]

The 80eldx and 77tmk seem to have very very similar behavior when they hit a deer at ~3k fps, which quite honestly is an amount of damage that I consider nearly too much.

The wind advantage is notable. I find when you hit a point where 1mph of wind equals .1mil (ie 400yds for your 4mph 77tmk) things become more difficult from that point on. For me there would only be upside if your rifle shoots the 80eldx.

This is truth shooting my 22 creed and 223 with hand loads back to back at 700 this morning really shows the pretty steady breeze of 4mph was easy with the creed the 223 if I did t notice it die off I was missing the small rock I was shooting


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[Bluumoon]

I’m at 6800ft, 3300fps. Not sure how your figure out your gun MPH. I set wind to 90 degrees and then change wind speed till it corresponds w a 0.1 mil shift per 100 yards.

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

I’m at 6800ft, 3300fps. Not sure how your figure out your gun MPH. I set wind to 90 degrees and then change wind speed till it corresponds w a 0.1 mil shift per 100 yards.

You just did.

 

[Bluumoon]

What BC and speed are you using? In my AB app I had to plug in 3800 FPS to get to a 0.7 wind call for 7MPH at 700 yards.

At 3100 FPS I show the 77 as a 5 mph gun and the 80 eldm as a 6/7 mph.

.420

 

[Skerhunter]

They are pretty much the exact same thing just pick one or both (if both legal where you live). 6 creed currently has more/cheaper factory ammo options is all.

 

[BBob]

I’m at 6800ft, 3300fps. Not sure how your figure out your gun MPH. I set wind to 90 degrees and then change wind speed till it corresponds w a 0.1 mil shift per 100 yards.

Your own chart shows you are off. @700yds is .78 and rounded off is .8 which is a 6mph gun not a 7. Bump your wind down to 6 and I'll bet the drift lines up better as a 6 than a 7. I know you want it to be a 7mph gun but I doubt that's happening with a 77TMK.

 

[Bluumoon]

Your own chart shows you are off. @700yds is .78 and rounded off is .8 which is a 6mph gun not a 7. Bump your wind down to 6 and I'll bet the drift lines up better as a 6 than a 7. I know you want it to be a 7mph gun but I doubt that's happening with a 77TMK.
View attachment 866924

Mostly 600 yard and in is where the quick math is most useful for me, so 7mph to 600. I think they all fall off at some point right, low BC even more so? I have some 88s to try next, but likely need a barrel throated for them.

 

[Bluumoon]

You just did.

Guess I meant I’m not sure how the other guy was figuring it out.

 

[BBob]

Mostly 600 yard and in is where the quick math is most useful for me, so 7mph to 600. I think they all fall off at some point right, low BC even more so? I have some 88s to try next, but likely need a barrel throated for them.

The TMK sort of falls off the cliff after 700 anyway so in your case doesn't matter much either way.

The 88's (as will the 80's I believe) will carry the wind number out to 1K fairly solid.

 

[wind gypsy]

.420

AB has 0.395 G1 and 0.202 G7 for the 77 TMK.

In AB with the custom curve it calls it a 5 MPH gun with 9 oclock wind and 7 mph gun with 3 oclock wind, right twist barrel.. JBM says 6 mph with 0.202 g7. I'd call it a 6mph gun @ 6800 DA

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

How much consideration are you giving to the BC between the 77TMKs vs the 80ELDMs? Running them through AB the 77s are a 4mph gun for my load (1.5Mil in a 90* 10mph @ 600M and 59% WEZ on a deer) vs the 80s being a 5 almost 6mph gun (1Mil in a 90* 10mph @600M and 87% WEZ on a deer).

I want to shoot the 77s so my 223 and 22CM are shooting the same thing, but the wind advantage / hit probability of the 80s seems too big of an advantage? Does that make sense? And if it does why the cult following for the 77? Seems that hitting what you're aiming at trumps whatever incremental terminal performance might be gained.

What you may "gain" in better BC with the 80 ELDMs can be lost with generally narrower wounds out of both the 80 and 88 M's. This is not to say that the 80 and 88 M's don't kill and perform well, it's just that in what I've seen, and what others have also observed, the 77 TMK's and 80 ELDX's are THE consistent .224 killing bullets.

If your 22 Creed shoots the 77 TMK's accurately I'd keep rolling with them. If you want the BC "edge" while still maintaining very consistent killing wounds then go to the 80 X's. As an example, even in 10+ MPH cross/shifting winds, there has been no observed increase in "hit rate" out to 1,200 yards when comparing the 80 X's to the more ballistically dominant 88 M's. At the ranges and wind speeds where it "may matter" you aren't shooting the difference in a hunting gun from a hunting shot position.

For practice, shooting the cheaper 80 M's and then moving to 80 X's is what I'd recommend. I have 3 Tikka 22 Creedmoors currently and switch between 80 M's, 88 M's, 77 TMK's, and 80 ELDX's throughout the year shooting. When it comes time to hunt big game, either 77 TMK's or 80 ELDXs will be in the mags.

 

[NoDakhunter]

What you may "gain" in better BC with the 80 ELDMs can be lost with generally narrower wounds out of both the 80 and 88 M's. This is not to say that the 80 and 88 M's don't kill and perform well, it's just that in what I've seen, and what others have also observed, the 77 TMK's and 80 ELDX's are THE consistent .224 killing bullets.

If your 22 Creed shoots the 77 TMK's accurately I'd keep rolling with them. If you want the BC "edge" while still maintaining very consistent killing wounds then go to the 80 X's. As an example, even in 10+ MPH cross/shifting winds, there has been no observed increase in "hit rate" out to 1,200 yards when comparing the 80 X's to the more ballistically dominant 88 M's. At the ranges and wind speeds where it "may matter" you aren't shooting the difference in a hunting gun from a hunting shot position.

For practice, shooting the cheaper 80 M's and then moving to 80 X's is what I'd recommend. I have 3 Tikka 22 Creedmoors currently and switch between 80 M's, 88 M's, 77 TMK's, and 80 ELDX's throughout the year shooting. When it comes time to hunt big game, either 77 TMK's or 80 ELDXs will be in the mags.

Do you have much experience with 75M’s on game?

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Do you have much experience with 75M’s on game?

Only 2 big game kills out of a .223...

One at 2,520ish FPS impact speed, plus a second shot at nearly the same impact speed. The deer acted not hit on first shot and dropped in place at second shot. First shot was lethal but narrow (found out after necropsy, bullet split the 3rd and 4th ribs cleanly) and deer could have ran off and died in the swamp, 2nd shot was to shoulder/spine junction which paralyzed the animal.

Another one at 2,100ish FPS impact, deer ran 60 yards to edge of woods and died.

Lots of shots and kills in gel, coyotes, rabbits, squirrels, P dogs, etc. They seem to behave like 80 M's.