Tent fabric....poly vs sil

[William Hanson (live2hunt)]

Has anyone here tried out the MTN Silnylon 6.6 XL from RSBTR? I'm going to be ordering some material for a tipi project this winter and I'm really thinking about going this direction, but with it about double the price of their regular silnylon I just don't know if it's worth it for me.

I'll be trying it soon but haven't got my samples yet

Live2hunt custom shelters

 

[Beendare]

I have some 1.1 oz sil from different mnfrs inc RSBTR but i havent compared these to the mtn fabric. The avg 1.1 oz is 20d in nylon and poly. The mtn is 30d, statistically 50% stronger thats a big difference.

I had a 15d tipi.... IMO not durable enough for hunts.

The question: the 20D works.... is the wxtra $$ worth the extra strength?

In my case...probably

 

[AK Troutbum]

Here is my Sawtooth after a chilly night with a frost.

After the sun came up and warmed things up:

You can see in the background that the Cimarron didn't seem to sag quite as much.

These pictures show very well one of the biggest reasons I prefer cuben fiber.

 

[Kevin Dill]

Cuben fiber: Is it noisy in the wind? I know it is a strong fabric, but I've read about it having problems r/t abrasion and perforation. Good durability over the years?

I've owned and used a number of good sil-fabric shelters over the last decade (including a Kifaru Sawtooth and an 8-Man) and have never personally experienced the degree of (cold/frost/wet) sag shown in the images above. I have noticed my shelters go through a break-in period where...I suppose...the fabric, seams and stitching all get stretched and stressed enough to eventually mitigate sagging in cold/wet/frosty conditions. That's just my anecdotal theory and completely unproven. After a couple of years use my Sawtooth seems to wake up almost as snug as it went to bed. For that matter, on every multi-day hunt I will typically make a center-pole adjustment after 24 and 72 hours. If I keep up with that, I experience almost zero troublesome sag.

 

[AK Troutbum]

___

As a side note- I was reading a commentary on fabric that stated reflectivity contributes to less condensation....has anyone with the Cuben fabric found this to be a factor?

You wouldn’t happen to have a link to this would you? I’d like to read a little more about it.



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[AK Troutbum]

Cuben fiber: Is it noisy in the wind? I know it is a strong fabric, but I've read about it having problems r/t abrasion and perforation. Good durability over the years?

I suppose if it’s not pitched tight it will be quite a bit more noisy. But the thing is, when you pitch it tight, and as long as your stakes don’t pull loose, it stays tight no matter how much wind and rain you get. It may also be a little louder during a good rain, but sil also makes even the light rain, sound heavier than what it really is. Whenever I’ve been laying in one, listening to the rain, I’ve never really thought about it being louder than sil, but I’ve also never thought that my Xtherm pad was loud either.


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[Beendare]

You wouldn’t happen to have a link to this would you? I’d like to read a little more about it.

OMG lost the whole post when having to re-sign in...arrrg

I searched the heck out of this when designing my tipi. Things you can do to mitigate condensation but in the wrong conditions, condensation happens.
This guys site- window outdoors.com is pretty good- John Walton phd- a hat tip to you sir
Dew, Frost, Condensation Backpacking

I don't think johns site gets into it but dew point is crucial factor....and it goes up as temp and humidity increase.

MSR vid
[video=youtube;IEmJl9IpzWc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEmJl9IpzWc[/video]

I don't have it in me to type out the rest......

 

[raysting06]

I don’t think I have the perspective you’re looking for and I’m really curious to hear what others have to say about the different materials. I went with the silpoly XL from RSBTR for my pyramid. One of the main reasons I decided on it instead of silnylon was its apparently more hydrophobic than the silnylon. It has less stretch and supposedly doesn’t get the big sag going with the rain or heavy dew. That being said, I haven’t been in a silnylon one and I’m heading to the hills shortly with mine for its maiden voyage. Whether or not the things I based my decision on are real/correct/have meaningful impact on performance, I honestly don’t know. I’m just hoping for everything working well and that we’re comfortable .


Jeremy

What is a total cost in building a tipi


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[gudspelr]

That depends on a few things. I ordered silpoly seconds, so it was cheaper. It was a color that I didn’t mind, so it wasn’t a big deal to me. I also ordered a little extra material for other projects. I’d have to try and look at the order I made and add it all up for just the pyramid tent, but I want to say it was somewhere around $150. That’s without the stakes and center pole though.

Jeremy

 

[raysting06]

Nice... I was looking into the sawtooth but realized y’all are making the same things for a lot cheaper. I don’t mind a diy project


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[gudspelr]

If you don’t count your time, it can certainly be done for much cheaper. That being said, I don’t fault the guys making and selling them for the price they do. It’s a lot of fiddling to get settled on how best to do it, let alone make it look good. But if you are a little handy and like making stuff, it’s a fantastic project. Walking back to the tent this past fall with my son and his deer was pretty cool-cut it up with a knife I made, slept in quilts I made, stayed warm with a stove I made, and the tent I made kept the snow out. Making stuff is fun .

Jeremy

 

[raysting06]

If you don’t count your time, it can certainly be done for much cheaper. That being said, I don’t fault the guys making and selling them for the price they do. It’s a lot of fiddling to get settled on how best to do it, let alone make it look good. But if you are a little handy and like making stuff, it’s a fantastic project. Walking back to the tent this past fall with my son and his deer was pretty cool-cut it up with a knife I made, slept in quilts I made, stayed warm with a stove I made, and the tent I made kept the snow out. Making stuff is fun .

Jeremy

Ok how can I get design and material. Or is design somthing I’ll have to figure out on my own


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[Beendare]

You wouldn’t happen to have a link to this would you? I’d like to read a little more about it.



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It was from Backpacking light as i recall...thats a subscription [$7.50/yr]. Let me try to find it for ya

 

[raysting06]

It was from Backpacking light as i recall...thats a subscription [$7.50/yr]. Let me try to find it for ya

Thanks feel free to private message me as well


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[Beendare]

Ok how can I get design and material. Or is design somthing I’ll have to figure out on my own

I think a lot of guys use Sketchup. Free 30 day trial. Very easy/intuitive. Sketchup calcs all lengths, angles and measurements. I have a couple versions you can have once you download the program. The one i like best is 12 sided....more seams so heavier...but also stronger. I have a few others i didn't build- 8 sides, oval, etc- if you want them just PM.
Mine first pitch and in Alaska





I think the advice I wish i had when starting would be; once you cut all the pieces, just fold and sew while holding a smooth section....tight and smooth matters more than following a line. Then just work one way around leaving excess for the last seam/zipper. Practice with some sil fabric beforehand to get a feel for it- its unique.
Heres what sketchup looks like- this one 10 sided i think.

 

[gudspelr]

As far as design, it’s something I think you’ll need to help figure out. How big do you want it? How high do you want it? Do you want it with vents, a stove back, one zipper or two? 4 wall pyramid or a multi-panel tipi (more of a round footprint)? We can help you figure out the design approaches, but some of the answers to the above questions would help with the start. And for materials, I ordered all of my stuff from ripstopbytheroll.com. They carry the various materials, trim, zippers, thread, etc and I didn’t want to pay shipping from multiple places.


Jeremy

 

[Beendare]

Thanks feel free to private message me as well


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I just looked and ran out of gas- can't find it- sorry. Lots of articles/commentary on Cuben fiber on that Backpacking light site...and by industry pros too- accurate info.

I was consdiering cuben for a project...but after learning more- passed. The durability after packing/unpacking is a problem. Some have had Cuben tents fail after a long appalacian trail run of 33 days....blamed it on the packing/unpacking.

For those not familiar, Cuben is essentially 2 thin mylar sheets sandwiching very strong fibers in the middle. Cuben is rated about the same longevity as the sil fabrics- but many backpackers disagree whole heartedly. Its primarily used for sails; high strength/light...and it doesn't get scrunched up all that much in that application. sails are typically rolled or folded in a bag with little abrasion.

It is very waterproof and had less condensation in the beginning...but once the plastic fails they can leak. At least with Sil poly and sil nylon you can waterproof it.