Tent fabric....poly vs sil

[Beendare]

So what is your opinion on the tent fabrics out there in regards to their properties?

For example, i know there is some issues with stretch/shrinkage. i used the 1.6oz hyper d from RBTR and did a 12 sided tipi to mitigate stretch [more seams for tensioning] I get a little shrinkage [gets loose] going from heated to cold..but after retightening it ALMOST goes away completely...but not totally. BTW, a guy can really crank down on this fabric and get it drum tight.

Is there one of these fabrics that holds the tension hot and cold? I've only used sil nylon for tarps...no tents.

Sil nylon....sil poly....which do you prefer for what application?

 

[Beendare]

Interested to hear from the guys with seek outside, kifaru and other shelters too....do those shrink when cold?

 

[gudspelr]

I don’t think I have the perspective you’re looking for and I’m really curious to hear what others have to say about the different materials. I went with the silpoly XL from RSBTR for my pyramid. One of the main reasons I decided on it instead of silnylon was its apparently more hydrophobic than the silnylon. It has less stretch and supposedly doesn’t get the big sag going with the rain or heavy dew. That being said, I haven’t been in a silnylon one and I’m heading to the hills shortly with mine for its maiden voyage. Whether or not the things I based my decision on are real/correct/have meaningful impact on performance, I honestly don’t know. I’m just hoping for everything working well and that we’re comfortable .


Jeremy

 

[colonel00]

Interested to hear from the guys with seek outside, kifaru and other shelters too....do those shrink when cold?

Here is my Sawtooth after a chilly night with a frost.

After the sun came up and warmed things up:

You can see in the background that the Cimarron didn't seem to sag quite as much.

 

[William Hanson (live2hunt)]

Silnylon is stronger and doesn't tear as easily. Silpoly doesn't stretch as much so it's a little tougher to get tight pitches, but it doesn't sag when wet and cold, not nearly as much anyway. I use silnylon for most everything I want to put my name to. Kifarus fabric sags the worst but seek outside does a bit too. Jimmy tarps uses rsbtr silpoly I believe. Most of the other manufacturers source from the same place as SO though there is reason to believe that their respective silnylons my be batched specifically for some of them and the properties of which vary a little, however to my knowledge most of the high end companies use silnylon.

Live2hunt custom shelters

 

[Kevin Dill]

Quite an interesting topic. Basic physics indicates most things contract (shrink) as temperatures are lowered, and expand as temps increase. Based on that.... you might think these tent fabrics would react the same way, but the end result is always a more slackened pitch in wet/cold conditions vs warm and dry. My Sawtooth definitely slackens on cold mornings as did my 8-Man. I'm not definite on what fabric Kifaru used in them, but I seem to recall a video in which Patrick (Smith) adamantly asserts it "is NOT silnylon". Perhaps silpoly? Seems logical to me. Anyway, I keep my tipi pitched pretty snug and make my center-pole adjustments in the morning when the tent is more slack. I have never had a big issue with sag or slack and wouldn't likely be bothered by it in my case.

I just ordered a Seek Outside 8-Man and had it shipped to my hunting partner in Missouri....meaning I haven't seen it at all. He did the initial setup and seam sealing a week or so ago. When I saw the pictures he sent me I realized the bottom edges were pulled out too far which created a flaired shape to the tipi. That reminded me of a trip where I did the same thing to my old 8-Man and experienced a greater degree of sagging when wet/cold. From that I concluded the best thing a guy can do to prevent sagging is to pitch carefully (no bottom flair) and keep those tipi sides more vertical and taut. Doing so reduces horizontal exposure and speeds water runoff in heavy moisture conditions. And again...keep up with pole adjustments throughout the days in camp.

Lastly, the best thing I've ever seen to reduce the effects of sagging are side guy-outs. I will not likely ever own another shelter (tipi) which doesn't offer them. Popping those sides out increases fabric tension and reduces the tendency for water to lay on the fabric. It also enhances interior space dramatically.

 

[WV Mountaineer]

As William said, silnylon is stronger but, stretches more. So, when wet, the effect is much more noticeable. It is easier to get a taunt pitch when dry with silnylon but, it will be sagging come morning. I think a lot of it depends on surface area and the way it is presented to the atmosphere. Meaning a flatter pitch, the effects of silnylon are much more noticeable. It stretches so readily, catenary cuts are required along outside edges to achieve a taunt pitch
.





Most cottage vendors are/were using silnylon for the tents back country hunters use. Some of that is changing as I personally believe the advantages of silpoly out weigh the silnylon. In tarps, due to the less then vertical pitches thy require, a polyester based material is far superior. Most all big tent producers have been using a polyester based material for a while too. Due to its ability to not sag with temp and water changes. Their fly's have been coated polyester for a long time. The tents have such large surface areas with less than almost vertical pitches, if t were silnylon, it would sag terribly. I recently made a 12 foot winter hammock tarp out of silnylon because I bought it for $2 a yard. With so much ridge line and side panel area exposed, it collects the water readily. Which leaves a droopy sag in the morning. Like Kevin said, I have to put more tie out on it to make it work. However, people I know that have used the Xexon material have a taunt tarp in the same conditions. So, I intend to sew it up this winter and give it a try.




If I were to use the the material for something that required a steepier pitch, silnyon is a better choice. But for tarps and big tents, I'll be using a poly based material for my own stuff.




What I say in no way over shadows William's opinion. He does what he does and it is great. I just like a polyester based material better. But, I sew my own stuff. I have never had a failure but, don't produce a lot of stuff either, like he does.

 

[LBFowler]

Most all big tent producers have been using a polyester based material for a while too.

I would disagree with this on an anecdotal basis, I still see the majority of tents being made from nylon. I only really see polyester on cheaper department store tents.

In my amateur testing the strength difference was rather alarming, I would be hard pressed to spend good money on a polyester shelter.

 

[gudspelr]

LBFowler-

I don’t know if more/better shelters are built out of nylon vs polyester. And I can’t say how much stronger the nylon is vs the polyester. I know about the charts on RSBTR’s site and it helps with figuring some of those differences along with stretch, HH, etc. That being said, I was curious about the 1.1 silpoly XL I’d been sewing so I decided to do some checking. The “windows” I had cut out for the vents and stove jack seemed like good opportunities to judge my seam that joined two smaller triangles into one large one that made up each wall. So, I grabbed onto the material and pulled perpendicularly against the seam. I started off without pulling too hard and saw there was nothing changing. Ultimately, I was pulling for all I was worth and happily, the seam had zero issues.

That was when I decided to start looking at the material itself since I was putting some serious stress on it. It seemed no worse for the wear so using both hands, I grabbed the material where there were no seams and stated pulling and yanking again. To my surprise, I couldn’t seem to damage the silpoly. Honestly, I figured I’d be able to get a finger through the material as I pulled which would start the chain reaction of tearing. But, that didn’t happen.

I took my pointy knife and poked a hole through the material, then went to pulling. At that point, it took a bit of pressure to get started, then it tore. These were all obviously about as unscientific as they come, but it definitely made me feel pretty good about trusting it on the hill. For such light material, I had expected less strength than I found. With a tight pitch and some guy lines and properly staked, I feel very comfortable sleeping under it. All that is in no way a condemnation of silnylon or to say silpoly is stronger or better. Just that in my very limited experience, I’m not overly concerned about it’s strength. I suppose time and some weather will tell if it’ll hold up.


Jeremy

 

[Beendare]

Some interesting takes...and that photo of Brads tent was particularly telling.

I don't think you can make blanket statements about poly and nylon as LBFowler did above.
EDITED;
So many of these fabrics are custom made with each blend and fiber count different. Kifaru claims a better fabric than normal Sil- and there is no reason to doubt them.

Then add that some fabrics like the silpoly I used is [1.6oz hyper D pu4000 silpoly by RSBTR] has a grid fiber making it much tougher, less resistant to cuts and less stretch. IMO, This is a huge factor that needs to be mentioned in a poly vs nylon reference. Then add that certain types of waterproofing actually add strength to the fabric itself.

I personally wouldn't make a tent without this gridstop in the fabric.

I think what Brads pic illustrates is design being a big factor in how it affects the fabric. There are large sections that sag even with the guy lines. Of course you can add guys. My point is, i think the door is wide open for a new kid on the block to redesign these sawtooth shaped structures to be better all around.

Re guys; I put them on my tipi not knowing if needed but the 12 sided design with more seams ended up performing surprisingly well without any addl guyouts. The fact there was no big sections of fabric that the wind could concave out and get a bite on the structure proves to me design is a big factor. I do see an advantage to designing a structure for guyouts that add strength without the addl weight of pole support- makes sense if you can pitch in a location where this will work.

I doubt I will ever run into winds in exposed conditions like i do in Alaska...so the addl seams is probably a mute point [and overkill- grin] for many of us. No matter, there is a sweet spot when it comes to big side panels of fabric...and the fabric you choose DOES make a difference.

 

[dreamingbig]

Seek Outside BCS Grande in a September snow storm. It was strong enough.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[dreamingbig]

Here is what it looked like pre-snow:

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[oenanthe]

"[1.6oz hyper D by RSBTR] has a grid of dyneema [kevlar] making it much tougher, less resistant to cuts and less stretch."

You sure about that? Kevlar is aramid fiber, dyneema is UHMWPE (polyethylene). But I can't find anything on ripstopbytheroll to indicate that HyperD is either of these, they just call it "ripstop nylon".

 

[Beendare]

"[1.6oz hyper D by RSBTR] has a grid of dyneema [kevlar] making it much tougher, less resistant to cuts and less stretch."

You sure about that? Kevlar is aramid fiber, dyneema is UHMWPE (polyethylene). But I can't find anything on ripstopbytheroll to indicate that HyperD is either of these, they just call it "ripstop nylon".

No, i'm not sure...doing this from memory of a discussion i had with the owner of RSBTR 8 months ago. It does have a 'gridstop' fiber in there. If you have anything to add to the discussion on silpoly vs silnylon...i'm all ears.

Actually i'm glad you bring this up ...the exact fabric i used is 1.6oz PU4000 silpoly with gridstop [which doesn't appear they are selling anymore [except in camo] for most of the tent and 1.1oz pu4000 silpoly for the walls...pardon my confusion....its been awhile.

I cannot remember what they told me the grid fiber was in there...i thought it was dyneema....I can tell you it helps reinforce these fabrics whatever it is.

 

[Beendare]

Heres the link to RSBTR's fabric comparison. I used this and the owners recommendation for fabric decision

Coated Fabric Comparison Chart – Ripstop by the Roll

According to them the silpoly stretches less...and sags less

 

[WV Mountaineer]

I would disagree with this on an anecdotal basis, I still see the majority of tents being made from nylon. I only really see polyester on cheaper department store tents.

In my amateur testing the strength difference was rather alarming, I would be hard pressed to spend good money on a polyester shelter.

Not being a wise guy but, what did you think "big tent producers" meant? And, yes nylon is much stronger per weight due to it's ability to stretch instead of break.



Polyester can be as strong. It just has to be heavier thread count. Once again, why do you think the big producers tents weighs so much in comparison? Sheer strength, nylon I've used is tougher per weight. It is like all things in life, there are compromises. If I made back country hunting tents to sell, I'd make them out of Silnylon too. If I made a big canopy tent, I'd use a host of things. Likely, none of which would be silnylon. For these reasons. God Bless

 

[oenanthe]

If you have anything to add to the discussion on silpoly vs silnylon...i'm all ears.

Not I, sir: I've never used silpoly. But my ho-made silnylon solo shelter is 8 years old now and (like me) is getting a little droopy. So I'm just following along, reading the thread, trying to decide what fabric my next shelter should be made of.

And thanks for posting the comparison chart! Lots of good info there. I think that for my purposes it makes me want to stick to silnylon. Even though the silnylon sag is an annoyance, nothing else seems to beat silnylon for tear strength and puncture resistance. Which for a solo shelter are the most important criteria (for me).

 

[Beendare]

...
I'm just following along, reading the thread, trying to decide what fabric my next shelter should be made of.

Yeah, same here. I'm considering building another 2 man tent/tipi grid fiber for backpacking with slightly lighter fabric....thus the question...I was hoping for some pro's to chime in.

BTW, I have a ticket in to RSBTR to clarify on the grid fiber in those fabrics...I will edit in an update.

Heres a pic of my old GoLite SL5 from 10-15 yrs ago....they advertised it as 15D silnylon [I think] I was not at all impressed with the durability of that fabric. My dog [55# aussie] stepped on the side wall trying to get in and caused a rip appx 30" long...crazy how easy that puncture turned into a big rip. [Tenacious tape fix]

Sometimes Ultra light...might be too light.....not such a big deal backpacking and such..but I wouldn't want it to wreck my hunt.

 

[Beendare]

Its been a week and no email response from Ripstop BTR on what their grid fiber is.

Does anyone have a link to testing these Silnylon and Silpoly fabrics?

There has to be something out there comparing performance-stretch and tear resistance besides the RSBTR chart.
___

As a side note- I was reading a commentary on fabric that stated reflectivity contributes to less condensation....has anyone with the Cuben fabric found this to be a factor?

Condensation; No matter what we will always get condensation on a single wall shelter in certain circumstances. We can design around some of it....and the 'where' and 'how' you set it up determines a lot. Interesting [to me] that reflective properties of the fabric are a factor.

 

[kylem]

Has anyone here tried out the MTN Silnylon 6.6 XL from RSBTR? I'm going to be ordering some material for a tipi project this winter and I'm really thinking about going this direction, but with it about double the price of their regular silnylon I just don't know if it's worth it for me.