Tell me about "dialing"

[nksmfamjp]

Let me give some practical advice based on a non-Uber elite hunters actual shooting.

i have a 300 Sherman that I have shot over my Labradar. It shoots 3050 fps.

i shoot Berger eh 180 gr. Berger says the G7 is 0.295.

Im pretty sure of my 100 yd zero.

To get my Kestrel to match dope, I have to set bc to 0.315, velocity to 3100 fps and adjust my zero to hit reliably out to 600 yds!

After all that tuning, I’ll tell you 600 yd shots are kind of hard. Wind is the challenge, especially when the bullet path is over 50 foot off the ground. I’m going to keep working on it and I suggest you do too.

Now lets talk optic. In very light wind, a basic sfp optic with tested turrets should get you what you need. External uncapped elevation helps. Zero stop is nice, but not required. Mil-mil turret-reticle is nice, but moa can work.

If you need to adjust for wind, you have to either hold or dial. I hold because wind changes. Where I practice, that flag will show me 12 mph left to 12 mph right from shot to shot. I choose to hold windage. So, I need a reticle that tells me where to hold. I could dial windage, but that would require constant fiddling with the dial as wind changes.

Since I use the reticle, I need an ffp scope, unless I commit to shooting on max power. I would commit to that, but I like to shoot on a lower power to see my game animal drop, run, etc when the rifle is fired. I don’t have a brake on this rifle.

So, for me something like my Vortex Viper PST Gen 2 3-15x44 is a good balance between weight, size, features. I chose it over a similar priced Leopold due to the ffp reticle for wind holding and elevation holding on quicker shots like holding 0.4 mil elevation at 200 yds or 0.8mil for 300yds. Leupold has no reticle in this price ball park that is ffp or offers wind&elevation holds. Leupold glass does not look great to my eye, but I fully admit it is good glass, but not comparably best at this price point.

Honestly, Leupold is confusing. They make lightweight optics….great. They offer turret, glass and reticles based on what they can make vs what is actually needed/wanted by the consumer who is making the shot. Since they have failed for 20 years at it, they should hire a shooter, who knows optics, to revamp their product line. They basically need to offer:

cheap & simple: $200-$600 SFP, duplex reticle option with decent glass and reliable capped turrets. To get fancy, put a horizontal line on the top models that is a 400 yd hold for a std magnum with a 200yd zero. Make it as wide as a 5mph wind hold on each side….maybe too fancy. 30mm tube

Entry tactical, AR: $200 -$600 1-X LPVO with capped mil turrets and a mil based ffp or bdc based ffp reticle and optional illuminated center dot. 30mm tube

Long Range Hunting: $700-$1800 mil-mil turrets. Capped windage at the low end through locking at the top end. FFP Tree reticle at all prices, but full featured at top end and no illumination at the bottom. Low powers from 3x-6x; high powers from 15x-30x…objectives from 40mm-56mm. ED glass or similar image quality at the top. 30 - 34mm tube

premium hunting, simple: $800-$1200 top tier glass, sfp, single dot illumination, slightly higher magnification like 16x top end, simple to use with top quality glass

Premium tactical $1200 -$4000 from LPVO 1-10x with exposed locking turrets, zero stop….option for slim capped windage…option for bdc’s all ffp higher price should get you Zeiss/TT quality glass….premium glass….premium, multiturn turrets with turn markers, better zero adjustments, mils per revolution should be optimized for feel, visibility, etc….for example a windage that adjusts 0 to 10 mils in each direction, but stops at 10 mil 1/2 revolution adjustment….

competition series for Benchrest where scopes must have best quality mechanicals, be super light and have decent glass.

 

[BFR]

Great info, everyone - that's exactly what I was looking for. I'm going to start some research based on the Leupold CDS scopes and go from there. I agree that being tied to one load isn't great, but I could get away with that on my 7mm. I'll have a few other rifles that'll need flexibility.

Are the Leupold turrets easily swapped?

I’ve been using one since they first came out, temps from 90s to -15, sea level to 10k haven’t seen enough variations in impact to problems out to 600 yds., but I shoot it a lot. You can always just use it with a cheat sheet or buy a second dial for different ammo.
Changing the turret is simple, just 1 or 2 set screws and it lifts off.
Whatever you get, practice and familiarity is they key.

 

[BRTreedogs]

SWFA 6X, a decent chrono & a ballistic app will cover you for everything. You don't need to blow 600 on a Labradar chrono, an $80 magnetospeed will do you just as well.

Yes, I have my drops taped to my rifle, but that's purely because I shoot in Tennessee, hunt in Wyoming. I have no need to dial at home (I set my zero at 200 here & leave well alone) but out in the Sage, 500+yd shots are not uncommon. I have my western drops fixed to the stock.

Please direct me to an $80 magneto?

 

[Kimber7man]

Great info, everyone - that's exactly what I was looking for. I'm going to start some research based on the Leupold CDS scopes and go from there. I agree that being tied to one load isn't great, but I could get away with that on my 7mm. I'll have a few other rifles that'll need flexibility.

Are the Leupold turrets easily swapped?

You could start with the standard 1/4 MOA CDS dial and not buy into the one load/one rifle/one dial. Use a ballistics app to plug in your bullet, velocity, etc and then just dial the number of clicks per the ballistics app. True it up at longer range and you’re set.

 

[Gila]

MOA is easy to figure holdover using the reticle at medium ranges. I picked up a MIL scope at a blowout price and now I will never look back. Big difference at longer ranges. The MOA scope is on a light backpack hunting rifle and Is rather compact and light so it is staying on the rifle. I really do like the scope.

SFP vs FFP for hunting seems to be a matter of personal preference. For ranges out to 400 yds it is nice to have the same site picture and reticle. But getting serious about using the reticle for holdover, especially at longer ranges, the FFP really shines. I prefer the FFP myself. At low power there is a small x for a reticle. The rest of the site picture is clear so my eyes go directly to the center. For my next scope I think I will try the Horus type reticle, seems more natural for holdover.

I like low, wide turrets that I can feel the clicks through my gloves. I don’t like “busy” turrets or reticles. I also want an illuminated reticle. Zero stops absolutely. And I want to see the numbers on the reticle gradients. I won’t buy anything other than German or Japanese ED/HD glass. A 34mm tube works for me. I like a compact and somewhat lightweight scope between 27-32 oz max. Locking or capped turrets would be nice, especially for wind age. It is usually the windage turret that is sticking out of the backpack.

Unless you can find a used scope or a blowout price, you don’t get much really for under $1,000. I would put the entry level at $1000-1700. Premium tactical is like March, Tangent and the like for $2000-5000 and up. I would rather buy once, cry once and not have any mechanicals. Good tags are hard to come by these days.

 

[wapitibob]

My cds consists of a trimmed down Avery label wrapped around the elevation turret and a ball point pen.

 

[nksmfamjp]

Please direct me to an $80 magneto?

Actually you can guess. Wh6 measure perfectly and then true!