Take the Trad Plunge?

[dangerousD]

Been following this thread awhile and contemplating making the switch as well. I completely agree with the concept of compound bows being pretty much a layup as someone else stated. My question is about arrows. I've got an old Ben Pearson longbow I've played with in the past. Last time I shot it with some carbon arrows(which were most likely way over spined) I ended up with a bunch of carbon slivers in my hand, not fun at all. So with that being said, how many of you guys shoot old school aluminum? Seems a little safer for of the shelf shooting to me, as well as easier to cut if needed while tuning. Anyone else experience this with the carbon? Very informative thread for me. Thanks all

I shoot carbons out of my recurve and longbow. Unless your arrows are splintered or worn, then I wouldn't think you should be getting slivers. On the same token, the arrow doesn't contact my hand when I shoot. It's close on my longbow but it normally doesn't touch.

Keep experimenting and learning! It's a lot of fun.

 

[Felix40]

I don't see a reason to do anything but traditional. All the info above puts you on the right track and it will be so much more fun.

 

[larryschwartz]

Been following this thread awhile and contemplating making the switch as well. I completely agree with the concept of compound bows being pretty much a layup as someone else stated. My question is about arrows. I've got an old Ben Pearson longbow I've played with in the past. Last time I shot it with some carbon arrows(which were most likely way over spined) I ended up with a bunch of carbon slivers in my hand, not fun at all. So with that being said, how many of you guys shoot old school aluminum? Seems a little safer for of the shelf shooting to me, as well as easier to cut if needed while tuning. Anyone else experience this with the carbon? Very informative thread for me. Thanks all

cap4382,

I have, and still do, shoot aluminum arrows, and it has been twenty some odd years. The reasons are simple.

~ They work well and get the job done.
~ They don't snap/fracture/splinter/explode when that hard rock or piece of wood jumps in front of my intended target. Wood arrows are normally easy to see if they have a crack in them, but with carbon that crack is often internal and you don't know until it explodes at the shot.
~ It is easier to build them from their component parts than wood or carbon; I'm a cheap SOB in some respects and I can't see paying a hundred plus dollars for a dozen arrows already made from wood/aluminum/carbon when it is so easy to make my own, and I can get them just the way I want them (length, weight, helical fletching, and so on).
~ If they bend I can bend them back into shape.
~ They have the mass that I want in a hunting arrow; I am more concerned about how much energy is still present when it gets to where it is going than how flat the trajectory is.

I hope that answered your question.

Larry Schwartz

 

[strictlyRUM]

Well I did it boys! I sold my bow in order to pay for the rifle for the unexpected tag I drew this year and finally hung my tag on a decent pair of muley horns. So I have gone back to traditional! 23 years ago I shot a doe with a recurve and haven't really tried since. I am committed now. I bought a stick bow and have a year to get the rust out. Next year is the start of another quest. A mature buck with a recurve. Cant wait.

Jason

 

[Tim in Wa.]

cap4382,

I have, and still do, shoot aluminum arrows, and it has been twenty some odd years. The reasons are simple.

~ They work well and get the job done.
~ They don't snap/fracture/splinter/explode when that hard rock or piece of wood jumps in front of my intended target. Wood arrows are normally easy to see if they have a crack in them, but with carbon that crack is often internal and you don't know until it explodes at the shot.
~ It is easier to build them from their component parts than wood or carbon; I'm a cheap SOB in some respects and I can't see paying a hundred plus dollars for a dozen arrows already made from wood/aluminum/carbon when it is so easy to make my own, and I can get them just the way I want them (length, weight, helical fletching, and so on).
~ If they bend I can bend them back into shape.
~ They have the mass that I want in a hunting arrow; I am more concerned about how much energy is still present when it gets to where it is going than how flat the trajectory is.

I hope that answered your question.

Larry Schwartz

Larry
I have a 60" recurve that pulls 56# @29". I used aluminum arrows in the past than switched to carbon.I'd like to go back to aluminum but one problem I had with them was getting them heavy enough. I'd like them to end up around 600 grains I tried to use a heavier tip but that didn't shoot well.I'd prefer the extra weight was in the shaft.Do you have a way to achieve this that you could suggest?
Thanks
Tim

 

[larryschwartz]

Tim,

If you used a heavier tip I am not surprised that it didn't shoot well. Carbon shafts are more forgiving than aluminum are in terms of spine. If you went up in tip weight that would make the shaft (any shaft) relatively weaker in terms of spine and that will affect its deflection at the riser and flight. If you want to go up in tip weight you will likely (but not always) need to go up in spine/stiffness as well to get it to fly the same. Here is a table of arrow shaft sizes and tip weights that will get you into the upper 500's in total grain weight. 9 grains per inch of arrow length will work for most anything in North America. I don't think you will need 600 grains total arrow weight unless you are going after moose or monster elk.

Shaft Size	Grains per Inch	Shaft Length	Arrowhead	Everything else	Total Arrow Weight	Draw Weight at 28"	Grains per Pound
2117	12	31	125	35	532	55	9.672727273
2117	12	31	145	35	552	55	10.03636364
2117	12	31	160	35	567	55	10.30909091
2315	11.7	31	190	35	587.7	55	10.68545455

I would start with a 31" 2117 (a Gamegetter 400) and a 125 grain point and work from there. Three Rivers Archery has a great table to help you pick a starting point for your testing. They also offer testing kits with different sized shafts and different weight field points so you can mix up a wide range of shaft and point combinations. Here are the links to the table and the kits:

https://www.3riversarchery.com/pdf/ArrowCharts.pdf

http://www.3riversarchery.com/Gamegetter+XX75+Shaft+Test+Kit_i6790-5_baseitem.html

http://www.3riversarchery.com/screw-in+field+point+test+kit+-+5+16"_iCF5-T_baseitem.html

http://www.3riversarchery.com/screw-in+field+point+test+kit+-+11+32"_iCF-T_baseitem.html


If you want to talk some more, PM me and I will give you my cell phone number.

I hope this helps,

Larry

 

[PredatorX]

So I too am at a crossroads of tech vs trad. At this point I have a couple more outings in the WI rut and then I may just sell the compound and go all in. I do already have 2 nice recurves. Just need to put the time in.

Came across a short YouTube video called The Untamed. I highly encourage you to watch it if you are thinking about trad or already into it.

 

[Nick Muche]

That is a great video Predator! I am looking forward to the spring, where I can try and take a few more bears with my recurve.

 

[cap4382]

I went all in after my last post here awhile back. Got a 55#@28 bear grizzly with some 3 rivers traditional only carbons. I set mine up for efoc after reading most of the Ashby reports and updates. Went with .300 spine @ 30"(my trad d.l. changed to 29+/- .25") and have 360 gr up front btw steel B.H. inserts and brass inserts. Total weight is around 700, give or take a few. I'm perfectly tuned now, bareshaft out to 30yds and paper checked. They fly perfect. My thinking is more punch over speed, within reason.
What impressed me the most is they're performance I'm high wind. Today, here in n.e. kansas, wind is a steady 20ish mph, gusts around 35-40. They cork screwed to the target, about 27 yds out but hit every time with Magnus classic BH's(good old fixed 2 blade. Non vented). I'll most likely be shooting high foc from here on. Maybe I'll play with cutting the head weight and getting a lower spine next year, but I'm definitely a believer now

 

[PredatorX]

Wow that is a heavy arrow. Mine is only going to be around 550 grains or maybe a little less. I cant wait to get some Zwickey Eskimos tuned up. Its going to be nice to take a file or stone to them and sharpen them up as opposed to the throw away blades on modern heads.

I'm also noticing a guy doesn't seem to lose as much money with traditional equipment. Less dollars in broadheads, depreciation, etc.

I love shooting the bow again. Its so much more than just pulling a trigger. In the back of my mind some doubt creeps in though on the capabilities of traditional equipment, but then i just look around at all of the trad bowhunters and the game they have killed. They were harvesting game with stickbow before the high tech scene. Besides, trad has reminded me that there is more to it than the "kill."

 

[cap4382]

Don't be scared of the heavy arrow! Seriously though, I want planning on having that heavy of an arrow, that's just where they happened to tune at with my bow.
I agree with you 100% about the longevity of the investment into trad. Only caveat would be is that shot group I made yesterday is one of the best I've shot so far at that range, up until a few weeks ago I would have definitely been searching for arrows in the grass. I tried cedar shafts before the carbons, they just weren't that durable to learn with, missing the target and pulling shots all over the place. Might lose a few arrows like I did but I sold my compound rig and went all in. This is the most fun I've had with archery in years. It's definitely more of an accomplishment to shoot a good group with a trad bow than a compound, hands down. I love it and am never going back. My brother always jabs me calling me "robin hood" but I can shoot as good of not better than he can with a compound, so take whatever jokes people make in stride. When they start poking fun, hand them your bow and just see how well they can do. Most likely they'll miss the target completely the first couple of tries.

 

[Scot E]

The site will get the juices flowing. I'm a compound guy but really enjoyed his videos http://www.twistedstave.com/

 

[PredatorX]

Man is it fun! Cedar arrows would cost me too much. I think every night I fling some arrows in the basement. @ about 12 yards I hit the foundation twice. Haha. Gold tip trads keep on ticking though.

Are you guys doing purely instinctive? I find myself using the tip to line myself up and then pick a spot.

There is nothing like hitting the spot you were looking at.

 

[PredatorX]

The site will get the juices flowing. I'm a compound guy but really enjoyed his videos http://www.twistedstave.com/

That untamed video is awesome!

 

[Scot E]

Agreed! Very well done!

 

[stevenm2]

I did it. I bought a used 61# Black Widow online and I cannot wait to shoot it.
I have the compound for sale and I will go all in. I shot traditional for some time years ago and I could never take the compound seriously. Traditional gear has been "pulling" at me for some time.

 

[PredatorX]

I sold my compound and all that related gear. I think I have shot my recurve every day in my basement (10-15 yards). Well I may not have shot it every single day but I sure have fondled it everyday. I never did that with my compound.

 

[justinspicher]

I am the same way. I have recently acquired a compound and as I tried to tune it I quickly remembered why I quit shooting them. I came home and went right back to my recurve. I don't think I'll be very serious about shooting the compound.

 

[Kevin Dill]

I read this thread periodically and enjoy the comments. I can relate easily, even though my last arrow from a compound was about 30 years ago. No sense boring you with all the details of that time, but suffice to say that I found the compound bow did not fully meet my need for the challenges involved in bowhunting. I found myself far too focused on the repetitive mechanics of shooting and simply didn't enjoy the overall experience enough to be satisfied. I abruptly gave it all up and bought a very good recurve...about $400 back then...and jumped in completely. I have always felt that it was the best decision I've ever made, though it definitely led me down a trail that fewer people will travel. It was a few years before I felt totally comfortable with a recurve and no sights; then it seemed natural and familiar. The compound link faded away in my mind and the thought of shooting one became as foreign as hunting in a tuxedo. I believe I went through a compound-negative period, though I wasn't vocal about it and never belittled anyone for what they used. I just kept pounding away with the recurve and found myself killing animals with regularity.

Nobody used to think of this as traditional archery...the concept had no relevance. In my mind the compound bow and related technology is the reason we now see the term used. For the record I've never really seen myself as a traditional bowhunter and don't feel the need to have a separate identity around the weapons. I'm probably in the minority there. I know plenty of guys who must make it known to others that they only hunt with recurves, longbows...the traditional equipment mindset. I am just a bowhunter who happens to prefer a recurve or longbow and a few other non-modern methods of doing what I do. I fully understand the guys who are loving their new passion and want to make it known to others. I think that's one of the huge benefits of shooting or hunting with non-tech-oriented bow gear; it gets a guy more involved at developing his skills devoted to woodsmanship, game pursuit and of course archery as it's been known for a few thousand years. The compound bow is still a relative infant in terms of age...something around 50 years of popularity...but look at how it has all but eclipsed the recurve and longbow. I'm glad that there are still enough of us out there doing it the non-mechanized way to keep it alive and gaining in popularity. It's a wonderful thing to see a guy (who's been lacking in satisfaction) suddenly burning with a new passion and enjoying both archery and bowhunting more than he ever thought possible. I've never heard this said by anyone else but it pretty much sums up what happens for many who see it through:

"When I thought about hunting with a stickbow I was always concerned about missing shots and lost opportunities. When I became a stickbow hunter I finally realized what had been missing, and I valued every opportunity to hunt, to shoot, and to be in the woods doing what I love."

 

[Nick Muche]

Great post Kevin and one heck of a buck!