Switching from minutes to mils

[Formidilosus]

That’s helpful. I’ve always been an inch guy that knows the chest size of my quarry in inches. I use them as my measure and know where to put the x to 400, maybe 425. Past that, if I have to and the wind is kind, it’s range and dial. For me at my age, probably not going to try and switch up.

But for my grands, I think we are going to make them base 10. I’ll just make my son a meters/mils guy and let him deal with his spawn. Have a couple mils scopes and the range finder is easy to convert to meters. Who knows, they may even drag me along, ugh.

That said, it is very difficult to delete 50+ years of muscle/mind memory. Not sure I want to put that kind of time into reprogramming my brain, because it would take quite a bit of practice time to not revert to inches under duress I suspect. My saving grace is I am not a long range hunter so I can get away with it I guess. Nor do I shoot far at all in wind. I do enjoy the dialogue and mental exercise new techniques offer. So thank you for that.

You do not need to use meters to use mil. Not at all. Mils works just fine with yards.

 

[Tmac]

You do not need to use meters to use mil. Not at all. Mils works just fine with yards.

You are making my head hurt. Shows what little I know about it I guess.

 

[WKR]

You need to try not thinking that way at all if possible. It doesn't help you.

Yeah thats something I have to try and rewire

 

[Marbles]

People should just set their range finders to inches. At range of 27,108 inches that is 27.108" per mil and 2.71" per 0.1 mil.

Problem solved, and no less ridiculous than switching to meters (I argued for that one at one point ), or converting MOA to inches or inches to MOA.

Not every animal of a species is the same size, so "knowing" the size is a fance guess. Which highlights that we are less precise than we think and the lost precision that we (I) once worried about is an illusion within the margin of error.

It took me a while, and lots of arguing to wrap my head around it. Sadly, I cannot really explain it any more clearly than anyone could explain it to me.

 

[WKR]

People should just set their range finders to inches. At range of 27,108 inches that is 27.108" per mil and 2.71" per 0.1 mil.

Problem solved, and no less ridiculous than switching to meters (I argued for that one at one point ), or converting MOA to inches or inches to MOA.

Not every animal of a species is the same size, so "knowing" the size is a fance guess. Which highlights that we are less precise than we think and the lost precision that we (I) once worried about is an illusion within the margin of error.

It took me a while, and lots of arguing to wrap my head around it. Sadly, I cannot really explain it any more clearly than anyone could explain it to me.

Yup seems like there is no good solution to my original post.

Its nice to have the easier wind dope with mils but im just gunna have to deal with not measuring with inches as far as drops go.

 

[Tmac]

Yup seems like there is no good solution to my original post.

I feel you man. I just stalk closer if at all possible. Most of my hunts are for meat and/or antlerless. So passing is not really a big deal. It's when we are hunting horns or down to the last day ish that my mind wanders to extending my lethal range and how.

 

[eric1115]

I switched from MOA to MRAD pretty recently (after last hunting season), and here's my takeaway so far...

1.7 mil at 450 is easier to remember than 5.75 MOA. I have AB ballistic solver in my RF, but if I'm on a different profile it's way easier to shoot with just a range and not a solution. I have not even really worked on quick drop process very much yet, but I can do it in my head if I have a little bit of time.

Wind is way way easier and faster. I don't even reference the wind in my solver for most shots anymore since gun number is so easy.

Making corrections with others using a spotter/binos is no factor. Spotter is estimating a measurement in inches, and shooter is not converting that to angular whether using MOA or MRAD. Shooter estimates what looks like that number of inches and sends next round regardless of reticle.

Two challenges that I've found are as follows: shooter and spotter both have reticles, one MOA and one MRAD. Spotter has fairly precise correction to give, shooter can't utilize it effectively. Rare, but not never. Falls back to offering an estimated linear correction same as if spotter has no reticle. Obviously this challenge cuts both ways, and sticking with MOA only eliminates it if you never shoot with mil guys. If it's a mix you're going to be speaking different languages at some point regardless.

Second, milling a target size is still less intuitive to me with MRAD than with MOA. I've found shooting rocks to be a little rougher determining target size, though I've simply adjusted my frame of reference to largely make this irrelevant. A .5 mil target is approx 1.5 MOA and is a good "small-ish" rock to try to hit. The math is easy enough from there if I care to do it... At 600 yards, a .5 mil rock is going to be 10" give or take.

Zeroing is a tiny bit less intuitive as well since the targets I use have 1" grids, but that is such a minor inconvenience that I consider it to be no factor in the decision process. Center of group is easier to determine on paper rather than through the optic for me, so I have to do a little math. ⅓ of an inch per click, and round up since it's actually .36 is easy enough and close enough to get me there just as fast as .25" per click.

At this point, my only regret in the switch is not doing it sooner. The benefits have far outweighed the challenges for me.

 

[pbroski]

My shooting partner and I do this. The spotter draws the target on a piece of paper. Each shot is then marked on the paper indicating where it hit. Based on this info the shooter is able to make his own corrections. Not even a word needs to be said. It would look something like this. The X's are impacts.

 

[Rippey715]

But what if you shoot MOA sized targets using a mil scope?

 

[ORJoe]

You are making my head hurt. Shows what little I know about it I guess.

Mil just basically means "1000 to 1"
1000 meters away, 1 meter big
100 meters away 1/10 of a meter big
100 yards away, 1/10 of a yard (3.6") big

It just gets harder with the inch system because people don't think of the size of a thing in yards, they think in inches or feet.

 

[wind gypsy]

If a guy is spotting through a optic without a reticle and sees a shot miss what appears to be about a foot left. Call out "missed a foot left", shooter then holds what they estimate to be a foot right. Maybe a little more error than one person estimating and converting to an angular correction but faster and takes out the error in angular and other thought in the process.

 

[Tmac]

Mil just basically means "1000 to 1"
1000 meters away, 1 meter big
100 meters away 1/10 of a meter big
100 yards away, 1/10 of a yard (3.6") big

It just gets harder with the inch system because people don't think of the size of a thing in yards, they think in inches or feet.

Yes, makes sense, I just need to reprogram the old noodle. Not sure I want to take that on.

I have always just thought and shot in inches. To the ranges I shoot, 600 yards max so far, 1 moa is very close to an inch at 100 yards, scales pretty close to an inch per 100 to 600, so I just use inches. No feet or yards. Just how I have always thought.

But in the field, I use animal size and just hold where I need to to 400-425 yards. I am 6” low at 300, 12” low at 350 and 21-22” low at 400. The target is large enough, deer size or larger, it essentially offsets any stacking of tolerances/moa to inches/animal size variance/errors. Very fast to range, hold the + where needed and shoot. Past that I either have a turret in yards for dialing or a chart on my stock with my moa come ups to 600. I stalk first and will only dial as a last resort. I do have a couple scopes with mils, and do the same thing with them.

I have too many bad habits. Not sure I want to stop fishing or off-roading or camping to free up enough time to reprogram and recalibrate my brain to mils. Still have to fit a wife in there someplace too.

 

[Shraggs]

Maybe I’m missing something, but with lower recoil and the ability to spot my own shot - I have my ruler/reticle for a correction in mrad myself.

Higher recoil rifle im not able unless with a partner and yea no buddies use mrad….

Maybe this is a good form Friday topic?

 

[Rippey715]

It would also depend on if it was an MOA target or a MIL target. In that case even if you and your spotter had the same scope your correction could be wrong because the target itself does not match your scope system. (Sarcasm)

For real, you can base any correction on the target you are aiming at. Spotter says "come left half/whole target" "you're 1 target low" whatever. Just use the target itself as the orientation. Don't need to speak in Mils or MOA for that.