Switching from minutes to mils

[WKR]

After a couple decades of shooting predominantly minutes, this last year I have transitioned over to mil/mil scopes on all of my heavy use and hunting rifles.

While the base 10 system and wind bracket is an advantage and more useful than a fractional based system for quick field use. The only part im struggling with is that I keep finding myself trying to convert inches to mils and I havent found a quick solution to that.

example: if you asked me how many inches of drop 4.25 moa at 700 yards (30" more or less) is I can come up with an answer pretty quick. But if asked how many inches 4.2 mils at 700 yards it would take me a while because I'd have the extra step of converting the 4.2mil x 3.5moa and factoring in the distance

For windage, its not much of a problem but I would like to have a simple way to know elevation/drops in mils. Even though most of the time im using the reticle as a measuring tool, sometimes as a spotter without a reticle I want to have that knowledge as a back up.

This might be a dumb topic, but after years and years of thinking in minutes, and being a Carpenter that thinks in inches, im trying to rewire a little bit.

 

[Formidilosus]

After a couple decades of shooting predominantly minutes, this last year I have transitioned over to mil/mil scopes on all of my heavy use and hunting rifles.

While the base 10 system and wind bracket is an advantage and more useful than a fractional based system for quick field use. The only part im struggling with is that I keep finding myself trying to convert inches to mils and I havent found a quick solution to that.

example: if you asked me how many inches of drop 4.25 moa at 700 yards (30" more or less) is I can come up with an answer pretty quick. But if asked how many inches 4.2 mils at 700 yards it would take me a while because I'd have the extra step of converting the 4.2mil x 3.5moa and factoring in the distance

For windage, its not much of a problem but I would like to have a simple way to know elevation/drops in mils. Even though most of the time im using the reticle as a measuring tool, sometimes as a spotter without a reticle I want to have that knowledge as a back up.

This might be a dumb topic, but after years and years of thinking in minutes, and being a Carpenter that thinks in inches, im trying to rewire a little bit.

Why do you care how many inches the bullet drop is?

 

[Mojave]

My LRF Binocular gives me MILS. My old LRF gave me actual range and then I had to do the math or plug it into an APP.

Really an upgrade.

The more your optic can do, the faster you will be.

 

[dirtytough]

After a couple decades of shooting predominantly minutes, this last year I have transitioned over to mil/mil scopes on all of my heavy use and hunting rifles.

While the base 10 system and wind bracket is an advantage and more useful than a fractional based system for quick field use. The only part im struggling with is that I keep finding myself trying to convert inches to mils and I havent found a quick solution to that.

example: if you asked me how many inches of drop 4.25 moa at 700 yards (30" more or less) is I can come up with an answer pretty quick. But if asked how many inches 4.2 mils at 700 yards it would take me a while because I'd have the extra step of converting the 4.2mil x 3.5moa and factoring in the distance

For windage, its not much of a problem but I would like to have a simple way to know elevation/drops in mils. Even though most of the time im using the reticle as a measuring tool, sometimes as a spotter without a reticle I want to have that knowledge as a back up.

This might be a dumb topic, but after years and years of thinking in minutes, and being a Carpenter that thinks in inches, im trying to rewire a little bit.

That’s the hard part for myself also. If I’m in the scope I can see and correct. If my kid is shooting and I’m in the spotter I can spot the shot. But I can’t correct him as well with MIL’s as I can with MOA.

 

[Marbles]

I would say call corrections based off of a pre agreed part of the target. I.e. your shot is 1.5 chests high. Or, have them give you chest height in mils before shooting and you can the spit out a number.

I doubt it will be any less precise than guestimating the inches and converting the linear guess into an arc.

The answer I want, is a spotting scope with a mil reticle. I don't have that though.

 

[WKR]

The answer I want, is a spotting scope with a mil reticle. I don't have that though.

This and possibly some of those vectronix RF binos with the etched reticle would be nice.

I'm just waiting to hear and see some good trusted reviews before I dump my zeiss rf's and jump into the vectronix

 

[WKR]

That’s the hard part for myself also. If I’m in the scope I can see and correct. If my kid is shooting and I’m in the spotter I can spot the shot. But I can’t correct him as well with MIL’s as I can with MOA.

Exactly, and its just easy for me to see an impact that's lets say a foot low and let the shooter know its 2 moa low at 600. Simple.

 

[Justin Crossley]

After a couple decades of shooting predominantly minutes, this last year I have transitioned over to mil/mil scopes on all of my heavy use and hunting rifles.

While the base 10 system and wind bracket is an advantage and more useful than a fractional based system for quick field use. The only part im struggling with is that I keep finding myself trying to convert inches to mils and I havent found a quick solution to that.

example: if you asked me how many inches of drop 4.25 moa at 700 yards (30" more or less) is I can come up with an answer pretty quick. But if asked how many inches 4.2 mils at 700 yards it would take me a while because I'd have the extra step of converting the 4.2mil x 3.5moa and factoring in the distance

For windage, its not much of a problem but I would like to have a simple way to know elevation/drops in mils. Even though most of the time im using the reticle as a measuring tool, sometimes as a spotter without a reticle I want to have that knowledge as a back up.

This might be a dumb topic, but after years and years of thinking in minutes, and being a Carpenter that thinks in inches, im trying to rewire a little bit.

Someone else posted this so I just copied it instead of writing it in my words.

A mil is 1/1000 of whatever unit of measure you are using for distances.

If you are using meters it breaks down like this:

1 mil at 1000 meters = 1 meter or 100 CM or 1000 MM

1 mil at 500 meters = .5 meter or 50 CM or 500 MM

1 mil at 200 meters = .2 meter or 20 CM or 200 MM

1 mil at 100 meters = .1 meter or 10 CM or 100 MM

If you are using yards it breaks down like this: (NOTE: 1 yard = 36 inches. 100 yards = 3600 inches. 1000 yards = 36,000 inches.)

1 mil at 1000 yards = 1 yard or 36 inches

1 mil at 500 yards = .5 yard or 18 inches

1 mil at 200 yards = .2 yard or 7.2 inches

1 mil at 100 yards = .1 yard or 3.6 inches

 

[dirtytough]

Exactly, and its just easy for me to see an impact that's lets say a foot low and let the shooter know its 2 moa low at 600. Simple.

Without having a ruler in your optic I think the easiest way is to tell the shooter to hold x targets more left, right, up, down.

So instead of the optic having a ruler the target is the ruler.

 

[fwafwow]

I would say call corrections based off of a pre agreed part of the target. I.e. you shot is 1.5 pancakeschests high. Or, have them give you pancakechest height in mils before shooting and you can the spit out a number.

FIFY

 

[justinspicher]

Math…….am I right?

I grew up using mils and I hated it. I couldn’t conceptually understand what the corrections were. Then I was introduced to MOA and it all made sense.

 

[Formidilosus]

Without having a ruler in your optic I think the easiest way is to tell the shooter to hold x targets more left, right, up, down.

So instead of the optic having a ruler the target is the ruler.

Yes, but not target reference. All the shooter has to do is measure back to brisket on the animals, or target, then say- “back to brisket is .7 mils”. Then the spotter has a ruler that is the animal but you both are speaking in a known, liner, consistent, manner where the shooter correction applier 3.5” in front of their eye.

1 MOA is .3 mils.

A deer back to brisket is 1 mil at 500 yards, and .5 mil at 1,000 yards.


If you are trying to convert anything in inches at range to correct a shot, you are slower, less precise, and more prone to error. That is demonstrable- not I like or I think or I feel.

 

[sierracharlie338]

What I had to do is forget MOA and inches completely and strictly use mils when measuring anything. I shoot known distance almost exclusively so all my read outs are in mils as well. About to sell the last few MOA back up scopes I have for mil versions.

 

[Brucebarker024]

I just made the switch and have shot a few times with hunting partners that still use moa and I just have them tell me based on the target, however seeing what @Formidilosus just described by measuring the target in the reticle and giving that to the spotter first seems better and I’ll be trying that from here on out.

I also just completely forgot about inches and only think in mils when shooting, I am also coming from being a carpenter and thinking in inches constantly. It’s was hard at first but gets easier every time.

 

[WKR]

Someone else posted this so I just copied it instead of writing it in my words.

A mil is 1/1000 of whatever unit of measure you are using for distances.

If you are using meters it breaks down like this:

1 mil at 1000 meters = 1 meter or 100 CM or 1000 MM

1 mil at 500 meters = .5 meter or 50 CM or 500 MM

1 mil at 200 meters = .2 meter or 20 CM or 200 MM

1 mil at 100 meters = .1 meter or 10 CM or 100 MM

If you are using yards it breaks down like this: (NOTE: 1 yard = 36 inches. 100 yards = 3600 inches. 1000 yards = 36,000 inches.)

1 mil at 1000 yards = 1 yard or 36 inches

1 mil at 500 yards = .5 yard or 18 inches

1 mil at 200 yards = .2 yard or 7.2 inches

1 mil at 100 yards = .1 yard or 3.6 inches

Yeah see this helps at certain ranges, for example
1 mil at
1000=36"
750=27"
500=18"
250=9"
But its the in betweens where it gets tricky

But with minutes it very simple and doesn't require much memory to remember
1 moa at
1000=10"
900=9"
800=8"
And so on...

And I'm not trying to argue that one is better than the other, I'd just be interested in learning a way to have mil drops be just as simple. The reason I switched is because wind is a bigger factor to me and i realized mils are a much simpler and efficient method when it comes to making and remembering wind calls.

 

[Justin Crossley]

Yeah see this helps at certain ranges, for example
1 mil at
1000=36"
750=27"
500=18"
250=9"
But its the in betweens where it gets tricky

But with minutes it very simple and doesn't require much memory to remember
1 moa at
1000=10"
900=9"
800=8"
And so on...

And I'm not trying to argue that one is better than the other, I'd just be interested in learning a way to have mil drops be just as simple. The reason I switched is because wind is a bigger factor to me and i realized mils are a much simpler and efficient method when it comes to making and remembering wind calls.

You need to try not thinking that way at all if possible. It doesn't help you.

 

[texag10]

I've had a lot of success never thinking about anything other than mils, getting optics for spotting with mil reticles, and bullying hunting buddies into buying mil scopes as well.

 

[Reburn]

When your group all shoots mils you speak in mils.
When someone in your group shoots moa you kick them in the testes until they shoot mils.
Then you just speak in mils.

 

[Choupique]

mil at
1000=36"
750=27"

Don't be converting units. Yards or meters and mils. That's it.

 

[Tmac]

Yes, but not target reference. All the shooter has to do is measure back to brisket on the animals, or target, then say- “back to brisket is .7 mils”. Then the spotter has a ruler that is the animal but you both are speaking in a known, liner, consistent, manner where the shooter correction applier 3.5” in front of their eye.

1 MOA is .3 mils.

A deer back to brisket is 1 mil at 500 yards, and .5 mil at 1,000 yards.


If you are trying to convert anything in inches at range to correct a shot, you are slower, less precise, and more prone to error. That is demonstrable- not I like or I think or I feel.

That’s helpful. I’ve always been an inch guy that knows the chest size of my quarry in inches. I use them as my measure and know where to put the x to 400, maybe 425. Past that, if I have to and the wind is kind, it’s range and dial. For me at my age, probably not going to try and switch up.

But for my grands, I think we are going to make them base 10. I’ll just make my son a meters/mils guy and let him deal with his spawn. Have a couple mils scopes and the range finder is easy to convert to meters. Who knows, they may even drag me along, ugh.

That said, it is very difficult to delete 50+ years of muscle/mind memory. Not sure I want to put that kind of time into reprogramming my brain, because it would take quite a bit of practice time to not revert to inches under duress I suspect. My saving grace is I am not a long range hunter so I can get away with it I guess. Nor do I shoot far at all in wind. I do enjoy the dialogue and mental exercise new techniques offer. So thank you for that.