Switching from GT pierce...

[FlyGuy]

I went to these arrows last year. This was my first time shooting micros and Initially I really loved them. They flew much better than my previous ones, they grouped extremely well, and the improved penetration on my bag targets was dramatic. Then I screwed on broadheads and things started going south. Eventually I discovered the problem that everyone else has with the outsert not being true. It was too close to September for me to start over so I stuck with them through the season. I've found that out of every 12 arrows I purchase only about 6 of them will be true enough to use for hunting with broadheads, the other 6 are only going to be field tip/practice; and for the prices charged that's just not acceptable to me.

I really like the micro shafts and the FOC weight of the insert/outsert provides and want to stay in that realm. Elk being my primary target, but I will hunt anything and everything that I can. Currently shooting a Halon. I have three arrow set ups that I'm considering, and im looking for feedback from anyone on here that has used any of these:

#1 - I heard about the Valkyrie Archery system on the gritty bowman podcast and the concept makes great sense given my experiences with GT. These are expensive and not locally stocked. Curious if anyone can here has used them.

#2 - Grizzly stick. Never seen one in person, and again not something my local shop would carry. The super heavy weight arrows gives me a bit of anxiety, but I love the idea of never having a bad angle on a critter. Quartering to, just put the pin on the shoulder and let it go. That sounds amazing, but concerned about longer range with super slow speed.

#3 - Deep Six 4mm FMJ with their new "Half Out". These were not on my radar until they came out with this new adaptor to expand broadhead availability. They might be the ticket given local availability and cost. I'm mostly concerned that this new outsert will have the same issues with inconsistency as the GT's do. Anyone had a chance to shoot these yet?


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[robby denning]

I must be lucky, I have not seen that problem with my Gold Tip Kinetic Pierce Platinum and Solid broadhead combo. Other than a few inches lower beyond about 40 yards, they’ve grouped with my field points. Sorry for the disappointment, especially on such expensive arrows. Let us know which combo you pick and how she flys


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[Slim Jim]

I had similar experience with the kinetic pierce but not with the platinums. I bought a dozen last year that was bad. I called gold tip and they told me that when production of these arrows first went out, they had some bad batches and I must of got an old dozen. They quickly rectified the problem and sent me a new dozen. Never have had a problem since. Maybe try calling them. These are great arrows imo.


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[Brendan]

Same issues with the Pierce platinum. Hard getting them to spin true, durability issues with the outsert. Two dozen expensive arrows to have enough I'd trust with Broadheads. Half built by me, half built by Jerry at South Shore. Arrow itself was great, insert/outsert was the issue.

My solution was to go to a 5mm Easton Axis with a brass insert - you can do 50 or 75 gr brass and still run standard thread broadheads.

 

[Outwest]

Just for my own curiosity... is the actual outsert not true to the broadhead or is the shaft not true to the outsert? Im just wondering if a squaring device could alleviate some tuning issues for you. I have heard mostly good things about those shafts. I can't imagine they would have off-kilter outserts going out the door but who knows?

What is the Inner Diameter of the shafts? Will an outsert from another manufacturer fit??

Not sure if you have looked into them but I would add the Victory VAP V1's to your list. I have had nothing but good luck with them, especially since they switched to the new 35gr. SHOK aluminum outsert. They fly great out of my Halon and have no issues screwing big fixed blades on when its tuned up.

 

[5MilesBack]

I haven't found an outsert/half out that doesn't eventually bend causing the arrow to not fly true. But I also found the same problem with FMJ's even with HIT's......the last 6-8" closest to the insert ends would start to wobble.

I have multiple carbon arrow sets with HIT's, some 10 years old now that still spin and fly true. And shooting these things with my 32 1/2" draw at 70+lbs, they get pounded into whatever I hit. I stick with what works.

 

[Jacob Chapman]

There isn't an outsert available that I trust. Tried most of them, disappointed by all I have tried-going back to the original VAP's a few years ago.

Axis for me until Easton finds a better way to get more weight up front on Carbon Injexions, then I'd just use D6 broadheads.

 

[Brendan]

Just for my own curiosity... is the actual outsert not true to the broadhead or is the shaft not true to the outsert? Im just wondering if a squaring device could alleviate some tuning issues for you. I have heard mostly good things about those shafts. I can't imagine they would have off-kilter outserts going out the door but who knows?

What is the Inner Diameter of the shafts? Will an outsert from another manufacturer fit??

Not sure if you have looked into them but I would add the Victory VAP V1's to your list. I have had nothing but good luck with them, especially since they switched to the new 35gr. SHOK aluminum outsert. They fly great out of my Halon and have no issues screwing big fixed blades on when its tuned up.

Can't speak for others, but I square all my arrows, and test/measure run-out at each end before moving to the insert. The arrows were great, just had poor luck with the insert/outsert.

 

[TBarron]

Had this same issue and also found durability issues with the GT Pierce. Went to 4mm FMJ injexion with 125g deep six BH. 27.5in 330gpi arrow fully dressed out a 476g. Broke a the front shoulder of a Sitka blacktail in half at 89 yds. Full pass through on a Muley at 55yds and the arrow buried up a good 6 in the ground behind it. Quit jacking with outserts and never looking back.


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[Muley15]

Im done with outserts, straight junk in my opinion. Im sticking with FMJ's and Axis.

 

[Yotekiller]

I had no issue with the outserts. Arrows fly great, but durability is not good.

 

[FlyGuy]

Anyone have comments on the Grizzly Sticks or the Valkyrie?

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[MattB]

From my limited experience, the Grizzly Sticks are not what you want,

 

[Cant hit em]

Black Eagle Rampage with heavy HITs is what im going to move to , im currently shooting Rampage and BE half outs and not convinced


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[FlyGuy]

From my limited experience, the Grizzly Sticks are not what you want,

MattB, Can you elaborate on this any further?

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[justin davis]

Anyone run the Goldtip half outsert and collar system in the FMJ injections?

 

[bhylton]

check out one of the latest Kifarucast podcasts on broadheads. they talk in detail about the issues you are having. the valkyrie system is covered as well.

 

[Hoot]

I bought a 2 arrow test kit from Valkyrie, they give you 2 different spines and 3 field point weights. Not too bad of a system, my only concern was the fact that you’re limited to one Broadhead choice. If he made his center pin system compatible with standard broadheads I’d be in 100%.

In the end I chose 5mm fmj with 75gr brass hit and 125gr point, 28 inches with 4 AAE PM-2.3 vanes. So far they’re darts, but when I screw on broadheads I may go to a larger vane like 3 max stealth or bohning heat...

 

[PathFinder]

I've been doing a ton of testing lately. My goal is to build an arrow that will survive a hard stop impact, no matter what. So far, I can count on one hand the number that will. My deer/goat setup will be 505 grains, and maybe I'll go to 550 if I decide to hunt elk. I'm going to publish a full account of all my tests when I'm done, here's what I've found so far.
Aluminum is unsuitable as an outsert/insert material. 7075-T6 has a high enough yield strength, but its Young's modulus is far too low. Its tendency to fatigue is bad too. 303 stainless is a pathetic excuse for SS, but everyone uses it because it's cheap and easy to machine. Its Young's modulus is over double that of 7075-T6. Grade 5 (6Al-4Vn) Titanium and 17-4 PH stainless are ideal in/outsert materials. Footing in and outside the arrow is necessary to reliably survive hard stop impacts.
GT: Complete garbage. Incredibly fragile. Such a design might work in a better material; Ethics Archery makes 303 SS ones.
Grizzly Stik: The most bomb-proof, hardcore hunting arrow on the market. Period the end, the shaft construction is completely unrivaled. The secretary is a complete witch, make sure you don't deal with her when you order. You can build a GS setup anywhere from around 475 to 1250. They can be done at a more conventional hunting weight. Their outsert system isn't completely indestructible as the inner part is 7075, but they always survive the first hard stop impact. They do tend to fail on the second one. Cons: Wildly expensive, evil secretary, only available online, need to upgrade the in/outsert material.
GrizzlyStik outserts do well on other .204 shafts (like an Axis). The external brass footing keeps things together.
I haven't shot a Valkyrie, but their outsert/footing system looks awesome. If I'm not wrong though, it limits you to their broadheads. They're not a bad head, but won't make it through heavy bone. A deer's shoulder, sure. Not an elk though.
Easton: HITs do not survive hard stop impacts. The new titanium outsert will survive, but the arrow won't. The lack of footing means the arrow just splits. You'll probably never bend that titanium outsert, but the arrow just won't survive a hard impact. I'm thinking about welding a titanium footing to them, that would be a potent setup.
Black Eagle had the brains to make a 17-4 PH outsert, but it doesn't foot the arrow either. I'm planning to test the Firenock Ti and Victory 303 SS outserts on a RIP TKO this weekend. They don't foot the shaft very well, but do provide some exterior reinforcement.
It really comes down to what you want your arrow to be capable of. If you don't mind having to completely avoid heavy bone and only take "ideal" shots, maybe the effort isn't worth it. But it is possible to build and arrow that will drive through a critter on any angle. The market just doesn't cater to that kind of performance.

 

[5MilesBack]

HITs do not survive hard stop impacts.

Define "hard stop impacts". Are you talking concrete?

The most durable arrows I've shot are the discontinued Trophy Ridge Crush 300's with HIT's. I've shot T-posts, trees, 2x4's, rocks, gravel, and several elk with them and never had an issue. I even put one arrow through both shoulder blades with the arrow sticking out each side, and that bull kept that arrow inside him for a mile and a half on that high hit, and the arrow came out unscathed......and used that same arrow on a bull a couple years later.

It's a shame that they discontinued those arrows. I even shot the back end of one at 20 yards that blew apart the nock and all it did was leave a small indentation in the nock end of the arrow. They are so tough that I sold my other two unused dozen Crush shafts because I couldn't imagine ever going through them all the rest of my lifetime. I've been shooting my original dozen since 2008.

Contrast all that with GT Kinetic 200's, and I've broken about a dozen and a half of those in just 2 years.