SWFA business model?

[BjornF16]

Looks like my first backordered 3-9x42 HD is finally in!

Received email today stating I need to contact SWFA to finalize the order

False alarm…my 6x mil quad on back order came in, not the 3-9

 

[ChrisAU]

False alarm…my 6x mil quad on back order came in, not the 3-9

Well chit

 

[carsonkeys]

I think I'm going to sell one of my 6x's and buy an Athlon Helos 2-12.

I'll save you the trouble of listing it and give you money right now.

 

[Mike Islander]

Last night (7-26-22) I received the two 6x42 SSs I ordered on 1-27-22; exactly six months.

I wonder how long I would have waited if I never ordered until they show in stock?

 

[260madman]

Look what showed up. Ordered 4/2020 during their tax sale. Forgot all about it until the email notification. 2 years and 4 months later.





My 3-9s now have masks, too bad it’s Monkeypox season.

 

[CorbLand]

Well that really sucks if it's true that no more 3-9s are coming in till October. That pisses me off actually. Batches of 20 every couple of months???? What in the hell kind of business model is that?

Its the business model that they are choosing to run. Its a free country and they can do that. If you dont like it, buy from someone else. Its a pretty simple concept.

The problem is that most people know that there is nothing that competes with SWFA for the price point and you want their product. If you don't like the business model they have chosen go somewhere else or start your own to put them out of business. Maybe SWFA should triple their prices and if anyone is willing to pay that for one, I have a 3-15 I will sell.

My brother was sick and tired of working 80 hour weeks. He started his own business so he could work 40 hours a week and have three day weekends. He only takes enough clients to facilitate his needs. Nothing more, nothing less. He turns people away all the time. That is his choice and he does not need to change that so you can partake of his services. To think other wise is a level of entitlement I cant even fathom.

 

[SDHNTR]

Its the business model that they are choosing to run. Its a free country and they can do that. If you dont like it, buy from someone else. Its a pretty simple concept.

The problem is that most people know that there is nothing that competes with SWFA for the price point and you want their product. If you don't like the business model they have chosen go somewhere else or start your own to put them out of business. Maybe SWFA should triple their prices and if anyone is willing to pay that for one, I have a 3-15 I will sell.

My brother was sick and tired of working 80 hour weeks. He started his own business so he could work 40 hours a week and have three day weekends. He only takes enough clients to facilitate his needs. Nothing more, nothing less. He turns people away all the time. That is his choice and he does not need to change that so you can partake of his services. To think other wise is a level of entitlement I cant even fathom.

I run a business too. 24 consecutive years of revenue increases, despite the economy’s gyrations. I also work less and less each year. I can’t fathom the idea of turning down good business, yet I also don’t want to work anymore than I do. It’s simple, you just have to find ways to scale the business. For me that means hiring more people so that we can serve more clients. The new hires make money they wouldn’t make otherwise while being plugged into a successful and proven network and infrastructure, and I make more money off their efforts. Everyone wins. Again, successful businesses find ways to make it work and keep growing and meeting customer demand. Otherwise, people will do as you suggested initially and will go elsewhere, and then there is no more business. This is America and if you aren’t growing, you’re dying. RIP SWFA, at least to me.

 

[CorbLand]

I run a business too. 24 consecutive years of revenue increases, despite the economy’s gyrations. I also work less and less each year. I can’t fathom the idea of turning down good business, yet I also don’t want to work anymore than I do. It’s simple, you just have to find ways to scale the business. For me that means hiring more people. Again, successful business find ways to make it work. Otherwise, people will do as you suggested initially and will go elsewhere, and then there is no more business. This is America and if you aren’t growing, you’re dying. RIP SWFA, at least to me.

What defines a successful business? You cant fathom the idea of turning down business because your definition of success is making more and more money each year. There is nothing wrong with that. My brother does not care about making more and more money. He wants to make enough to live and do the things he wants. That is success to him. In the future if he needs to make more, then he will have to find a way to make that work. For now, he has what he needs and wants and that is it.

When you hired people, you are taking on the risk of those people. You have scaled your business and as it grows, your risk is increased. Some people do not want that. My father in law built a 4 million dollar concrete business and lost it in 2008. He still runs a concrete business and he doesnt want to ever build one to that level again. Its not worth the risk to him. Is he failing?

If SWFA does not meet what you are looking for, then go else where. Instead of creating a thread on the internet, email them and explain why you wont be purchasing from them. If they want/need your money, they will do what it takes to keep you. If they don't want/need your money they wont. If they fail, they fail. So far, it seems like their business is doing just fine. Maybe in 10 years they will be out of business, what does that matter to you?

 

[JustSomeGuy35]

Its the business model that they are choosing to run. Its a free country and they can do that. If you dont like it, buy from someone else. Its a pretty simple concept.

The problem is that most people know that there is nothing that competes with SWFA for the price point and you want their product. If you don't like the business model they have chosen go somewhere else or start your own to put them out of business. Maybe SWFA should triple their prices and if anyone is willing to pay that for one, I have a 3-15 I will sell.

My brother was sick and tired of working 80 hour weeks. He started his own business so he could work 40 hours a week and have three day weekends. He only takes enough clients to facilitate his needs. Nothing more, nothing less. He turns people away all the time. That is his choice and he does not need to change that so you can partake of his services. To think other wise is a level of entitlement I cant even fathom.

No one has ever told me that I have entitlement issues before. That's a new one.

I have ran 4 different small businesses and am completing my MBA. I don't need lessons on business from you.

It is perfectly natural for someone to order a product that is "offered" and expect to receive it within a reasonable time frame. Offering no time line for when a product will ship, while taking potentially a year or more to fill orders, and being unable to process warranty claims in a timely manner, is a crappy business model by any standards.

My father, like yours, ran a successful construction business for 24 years and then lost it in 2009. He lost it because he refused to grow. Few businesses can endure the long term business cycle without growth and/or innovation. SWFA has neither growth nor innovation (except for their UL). Unless that changes, the long term outlook for them is poor.

You say if I don't like it then I should move on. Well, look a few posts above and you'll see that I already came to that same conclusion....and I did move on. I've sold 2 swfa scopes in the past month and replaced them with other company's products. When my backordered 3-9's come in, one will be kept and the other one will be sold at a mark up, which will fund my move into Nightforce.

Lastly, this is a forum for discussing optics so there is no need for you to try and shutdown our discussion. Your opinion carries no weight here and certainly not with me.

 

[ChrisAU]

Look what showed up. Ordered 4/2020 during their tax sale. Forgot all about it until the email notification. 2 years and 4 months later.

View attachment 435078

View attachment 435079

My 3-9s now have masks, too bad it’s Monkeypox season.

Wait. It took that long to get a Butler Creek cap order?

 

[CorbLand]

No one has ever told me that I have entitlement issues before. That's a new one.

I have ran 4 different small businesses and am completing my MBA. I don't need lessons on business from you.

It is perfectly natural for someone to order a product that is "offered" and expect to receive it within a reasonable time frame. Offering no time line for when a product will ship, while taking potentially a year or more to fill orders, and being unable to process warranty claims in a timely manner, is a crappy business model by any standards.

My father, like yours, ran a successful construction business for 24 years and then lost it in 2009. He lost it because he refused to grow. Few businesses can endure the long term business cycle without growth and/or innovation. SWFA has neither growth nor innovation (except for their UL). Unless that changes, the long term outlook for them is poor.

You say if I don't like it then I should move on. Well, look a few posts above and you'll see that I already came to that same conclusion....and I did move on. I've sold 2 swfa scopes in the past month and replaced them with other company's products. When my backordered 3-9's come in, one will be kept and the other one will be sold at a mark up, which will fund my move into Nightforce.

Lastly, this is a forum for discussing optics so there is no need for you to try and shutdown our discussion. Your opinion carries no weight here and certainly not with me.

Congratulations on the MBA, that is awesome.

I agree that getting a product in a reasonable amount of time is important. That is why I choose to shop with places that can accommodate that. I wanted a SWFA and I paid full price for a used one because I could get it in the time frame I needed it. If SWFA could get their wait times down, I would probably buy more but I am not going to act like they have to change everything just for me. At the same time, it really isn't like SWFA is over promising. Its been a well known fact for a couple years now that if you want their stuff, your going to have to wait.

I also agree that the long term outlook for SWFA is probably not good and it would suck if they went out of business but once again, their choice. It really doesn't matter. You cant get their product in reasonable amount of time now, if they go out of business, it will be the same. It really isn't any skin off my back and shouldn't be off yours. Vote with your dollar and move on. At the same time, SWFA has a cult like following. Even with their long wait times, there is still plenty of demand for their product.

I am not trying to shut your discussion down. If your discussion cannot handle someone providing another perspective to why SWFA does what they do, it is not a discussion. I honestly don't care if my opinion carries no weight here or with you, demanding that it does would make me entitled.

 

[JustSomeGuy35]

Congratulations on the MBA, that is awesome.

I agree that getting a product in a reasonable amount of time is important. That is why I choose to shop with places that can accommodate that. I wanted a SWFA and I paid full price for a used one because I could get it in the time frame I needed it. If SWFA could get their wait times down, I would probably buy more but I am not going to act like they have to change everything just for me. At the same time, it really isn't like SWFA is over promising. Its been a well known fact for a couple years now that if you want their stuff, your going to have to wait.

I also agree that the long term outlook for SWFA is probably not good and it would suck if they went out of business but once again, their choice. It really doesn't matter. You cant get their product in reasonable amount of time now, if they go out of business, it will be the same. It really isn't any skin off my back and shouldn't be off yours. Vote with your dollar and move on. At the same time, SWFA has a cult like following. Even with their long wait times, there is still plenty of demand for their product.

I am not trying to shut your discussion down. If your discussion cannot handle someone providing another perspective to why SWFA does what they do, it is not a discussion. I honestly don't care if my opinion carries no weight here or with you, demanding that it does would make me entitled.

Thanks, brother!

It pains me to look elsewhere for scopes because, dollar for dollar, I know I'm not getting the reliability and durability of a swfa. If I was in a better position financially, all my rifles would sport Trijicon, NF, etc, and swfa's backorder issues wouldn't matter to me. But Im not able to buy $1k+ scopes right now so I guess that's what fuels my irritation.

I do agree with you that I'm just whining on here. I guess it feels good to vent to like-minded folks. When I cry about swfa to my girlfriend, she doesn't know what I'm talking about, and it's just not as satisfying hahaha.

 

[CorbLand]

Thanks, brother!

It pains me to look elsewhere for scopes because, dollar for dollar, I know I'm not getting the reliability and durability of a swfa. If I was in a better position financially, all my rifles would sport Trijicon, NF, etc, and swfa's backorder issues wouldn't matter to me. But Im not able to buy $1k+ scopes right now so I guess that's what fuels my irritation.

I do agree with you that I'm just whining on here. I guess it feels good to vent to like-minded folks. When I cry about swfa to my girlfriend, she doesn't know what I'm talking about, and it's just not as satisfying hahaha.

I get it. I really do. I am color blind as **** and cannot see the red screens that are used in rangefinders. I wish Leica or Sig (in their higher end) would put a black screen in one. My solution to the problem, I have to use a base model Sig. I am the minority, neither needs to change for me.

My point of all of this is your first paragraph. Most people on here that are "complaining" are doing so not because they care about SWFAs business model, they care because they know they cannot find anything comparable for the price. SWFA has an undervalued product, they need to raise their price to offset the demand but if they did that, you would have a 20 page thread full of people bitching about that.

If you truly think that SWFA is going to go out of business, I would be stacking their scopes deep. They have a following and if they go out of business, those scopes are going to appreciate in value.

You can find scopes that are comparable and readily available but they are going to cost you. If you cant or dont want to pay that, your going to have to wait. I have a water leak in my basement that is going to require digging up my foundation. My father in law has what I need to do it but is extremely busy and cant come help me for a month or so. If I wanted it done right now, I would have to pay for it but I dont want to pay for it, so I wait.

 

[260madman]

Wait. It took that long to get a Butler Creek cap order?

Yep. Hard to believe Butler Creek hasn’t made anything for over 2 years or they constantly sell out every production run of 20 .

I completely forgot about the order. I was looking at my guns and thought I should order some caps from someone and just forgot. Then it’s like Christmas when I saw my Inbox and then I LOLd at the order date.

 

[ChrisAU]

Yep. Hard to believe Butler Creek hasn’t made anything for over 2 years or they constantly sell out every production run of 20 .

I completely forgot about the order. I was looking at my guns and thought I should order some caps from someone and just forgot. Then it’s like Christmas when I saw my Inbox and then I LOLd at the order date.

Sheesh. I bet Midway or Amazon woulda had those to ya in 2-3 days lol.

 

[sneaky]

Sounds like they’ve changed their business model! Me thinks they aren’t keeping Jack in stock these days on purpose.

Sounds like Covid wrecked their day to day flow like it did everyone else's.

 

[Bluumoon]

Serious question. With all the business owners around here, has anyone broached the subject of buying out SWFA or at least the patents? I am currently testing a product with a similar business model, good rep for durability, value price, less than a 100 units currently be shipped to the US per year.

 

[carsonkeys]

I thought I jumped in the 6x fire sale early enough this morning, but had a sneaking suspicion something was wrong when I hadn't received a confirmation email. Called SWFA and got some great info for folks wondering about the 6x or 3-9x.

First, I was able to suss out that both models are shipped to SWFA in batches of 20. Couldn't get an idea of how many batches per scope they were expecting however...

The ETA for the next batch(es) of 6x MQ is AUGUST. Current backorder list is 17

The ETA for the next batch(es)of 3-9x is OCTOBER. Current backorder list is 91.

If you want a 6x for this fall you better be one of the next 3 people to put their name on that 6x backorder list, take your chances in the classifieds/sample list, or quit complaining.

My 6x order was just fulfilled and they're showing available on the website right now. Better jump on it if you're looking!

 

[ResearchinStuff]

Thanks, I was able to snag 2 for my kids.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

I’ve never seen one in the wild, and every single person who’s seen mine has asked what it was. Companies like Vortex and NF are probably selling as many scopes in a month as SWFA did in a year.

They are also killing as many animals in a month as swfa does in a year (probably way more actually).