Swarovski z5i+ 3.5-18 x 50 testing

[Dave Chilson]

Got a notification that my favorite UPS driver will be delivering this tomorrow. I want to put it on my new elk rifle which I am impatiently waiting to be delivered. Until then, I’m going to put it on my most accurate rifle and test the repeatability to maintain zero.

Ultimately, I am going to order a custom turret from Swarovski so I can dial the yardage, dope the wind and fire for effect!

My self imposed limit where I feel confident shooting at game is 500-600 yards, depending on wind conditions. I’m fortunate to have a 400 yard range at my house.

I’m setting up my range to imitate shooting out to 900+ yards with my elk cartridge. (300 win mag, 200 grain Terminal Ascent)

Going to shoot 5 targets, 50, 100, 150, 175 and 200. The 50 yard target will be paper the rest are metal hangers. I have 500 rounds of the same lot number SK match that I will be using for the test. I will never be dialing this scope that much in actual hunting conditions because of my self imposed limits, but it should be a good test.

I went with this simple 4wi reticle. I pulled this from the Swarovski website, it’s the closest thing I could find listed, but it’s for the 44mm objective.

 

[Macintosh]

Until then, I’m going to put it on my most accurate rifle and test the repeatability to maintain zero.

I’m fortunate to have a 400 yard range at my house.

I’m setting up my range to imitate shooting out to 900+ yards with my elk cartridge. (300 win mag, 200 grain Terminal Ascent)

Going to shoot 5 targets, 50, 100, 150, 175 and 200. The 50 yard target will be paper the rest are metal hangers.

I have 500 rounds of the same lot number SK match that I will be using for the test. I will never be dialing this scope that much in actual hunting conditions because of my self imposed limits, but it should be a good test.

Sounds like you are testing it with a 22lr? Nothing wrong with that, my shoulder wouldnt appreciate it either w a 300winmag. BUT to test dialing and zero retention it’s better to do it all at shorter range, especially if using a 22lr. You can easily measure dialing error, rtz, etc at 100 yards and avoid questions about wind or environmentals. Its more accurate than measuring at longer range.

 

[Dave Chilson]

Sounds like you are testing it with a 22lr? Nothing wrong with that, my shoulder wouldnt appreciate it either w a 300winmag. BUT to test dialing and zero retention it’s better to do it all at shorter range, especially if using a 22lr. You can easily measure dialing error, rtz, etc at 100 yards and avoid questions about wind or environmentals. Its more accurate than measuring at longer range.

Thanks for the response. My thinking was to use more of the dialing range of the scope. I wasn’t going to be worrying so much about group size at 200 yards, just wanted to spin the turret. A lot.
For example: shoot a group at 50 yards. Shoot multiple targets out to 200 yards, then backwards back to 50 yards. Repeat until I run out of ammo or something breaks.
So I understand, are you saying just sight it and set zero, spin the dial up and back to zero and shoot again? Thanks for your time!
Dave

 

[Macintosh]

Yes, exactly. You still dial the solution for long range, you just test it on a measured target at 100 yards so you can be more precise, and so stuff like wind and altitude doesnt skew your results. Google a “tall target test”. Also, the scope eval forum here on rokslide has a number of the metrics you are thinking about incorporating in your own test, including zero retention, return to zero, tracking accuracy, in addition to the impact testing. You might check out what they are doing to see what makes sense for you.

 

[Dave Chilson]

Yes, exactly. You still dial the solution for long range, you just test it on a measured target at 100 yards so you can be more precise, and so stuff like wind and altitude doesnt skew your results. Google a “tall target test”. Also, the scope eval forum here on rokslide has a number of the metrics you are thinking about incorporating in your own test, including zero retention, return to zero, tracking accuracy, in addition to the impact testing. You might check out what they are doing to see what makes sense for you.

Thanks!

 

[Dave Chilson]

Scope showed up today and initial impressions are very positive. Great clarity and eye relief. First thing I did was remove the colored dot rings from elevation turret and replaced it with the other in the box. The caps of the turret are a synthetic material but the workings are all metal for those wondering.

Good positive clicks on both elevation and windage knobs. Locking the elevation turret is by the way of smallish lever which I don’t know if I like yet or not. See how intuitive it will become. Does the job well though.
Setting the zero uses a small wrench located in the top turret.

Really liked the red dot. I have a slight stigmatism in my eye and sometimes the dot flares. This one did not. Have to wait until tomorrow to shoot, it’s snowing and 20 mph winds.

 

[Dave Chilson]

Got scope mounted and ran through 125 rounds today. Took about 5 to get it centered at 50 yards. Just set zero stop and be good to go! Not so fast Bucky…..

Zero stop screws loosening and tightening get a 5 out of ten in the “that’s slick” category. There’s two dots you can see on the top of the turret that marks their location.

Actually, those “dots” are some short piece of metal that marks the location of the hole wonderfully, but blocks clear access to the screws you must loosen with that tiny “special tool”. With careful pushing up on protruding pin with the side of the special tool and slowly spinning and pushing in at the same time I finally got it loosened. No more than 1/2 hour. Each.

And even when you get the screws loose, there is still resistance on the knob when you set it. And I didn’t a great job setting it. After setting it I fired the group on the left, it was obviously low. But I had used up all my patience for today on the zero stop screws, it was good enough.

I shot 115 rounds at targets out to 200 yards. 1 round each and then dialed to another metal target. When I had ten rounds left I shot at the 250 yard target 5 times then dialed it back to the zero stop and shot at the point of the diamond on the target to the right.

The zero stop is set low and needs to be adjusted. It consistently show low on all targets. I missed the first two shots on the 250 yard target, aiming at the top edge produced 3 hits.



Initial impressions are positive, it’s great glass, love the reticle and I’m sure I can work out the zero stop.

 

[matagouri]

Hey thanks for that info Dave.......

 

[SDHNTR]

Could you please post a pic of the turret showing the new metal construction?

 

[Dave Chilson]

Could you please post a pic of the turret showing the new metal construction?

I will be resetting the zero stop and shooting another 100 rounds today and will see how far I can pull apart the top turret. Without voiding any warranty of course!

It appears that the windage and elevation workings are the same. The question is how does the optional elevation turret “capture” the metal ring. Here is from the owners manual:



If you look down through the top turret you can see the oval shape “key” that connects the external turret to the scope. Not sure exactly how it’s attached to the scope turret but will report back. An exploded view from Swarovski would be good.



As a side note, there is no discernible difference of feel when adjusting windage or elevation.

 

[SDHNTR]

Interesting. So all of that material you see there, including the oval "key" is metal? Hard to tell in the pic if it's some type of anodized aluminum or black plastic.

 

[SomeJackassOnAForum]

I will be resetting the zero stop and shooting another 100 rounds today and will see how far I can pull apart the top turret. Without voiding any warranty of course!

It appears that the windage and elevation workings are the same. The question is how does the optional elevation turret “capture” the metal ring. Here is from the owners manual:

View attachment 868819

If you look down through the top turret you can see the oval shape “key” that connects the external turret to the scope. Not sure exactly how it’s attached to the scope turret but will report back. An exploded view from Swarovski would be good.

View attachment 868822

As a side note, there is no discernible difference of feel when adjusting windage or elevation.

Looks more to me like they just print a single manual with both elevation turrets.

 

[Dave Chilson]

Interesting. So all of that material you see there, including the oval "key" is metal? Hard to tell in the pic if it's some type of anodized aluminum or black plastic.

No the oval piece is plastic. Thats the piece that is somehow connected to the turret. I didn’t pull any more pieces off today, I was working on figuring out the zero lock feature.

Contrary to the instructions in the manual, you must loosen three screws, not two to reset the zero feature and/or recenter the reticle. (Free up the dial) There is an additional screw (not referenced in the instructions FYI) that needed to be loosened. If you loosened it and tightened it when the instructions told you to do the two screws, everything works as it’s supposed to.

So after I got that figured out I shot another 125 rounds. Just like yesterday, out and back changing the turret on every shot. Last 10 rounds I alternated between 50 and 250 yards, dialing it 35 1/2 moa up and back. Went 5 for 5 on the 250 yard target and a very good group on the 50. Wind was very calm today.



So far I’m impressed with the repeatability of the scope. Now that I have figured out what works to reset the zero, I’m going to contact Swarovski and ask them about the procedure and how it differentiates from the manual. Also see if they have an exploded view of the scope.

And maybe an official response to the “how much cheap ass plastic is in my scope and when might it explode” question everyone seems to want answered.

 

[SDHNTR]

No the oval piece is plastic. Thats the piece that is somehow connected to the turret. I didn’t pull any more pieces off today, I was working on figuring out the zero lock feature.

Contrary to the instructions in the manual, you must loosen three screws, not two to reset the zero feature and/or recenter the reticle. (Free up the dial) There is an additional screw (not referenced in the instructions FYI) that needed to be loosened. If you loosened it and tightened it when the instructions told you to do the two screws, everything works as it’s supposed to.

So after I got that figured out I shot another 125 rounds. Just like yesterday, out and back changing the turret on every shot. Last 10 rounds I alternated between 50 and 250 yards, dialing it 35 1/2 moa up and back. Went 5 for 5 on the 250 yard target and a very good group on the 50. Wind was very calm today.

View attachment 868934View attachment 868935

So far I’m impressed with the repeatability of the scope. Now that I have figured out what works to reset the zero, I’m going to contact Swarovski and ask them about the procedure and how it differentiates from the manual. Also see if they have an exploded view of the scope.

And maybe an official response to the “how much cheap ass plastic is in my scope and when might it explode” question everyone seems to want answered.

Haha. I just think everyone is thinking wishfully. Swaro glass in a durable package would be quite intriguing. Unfortunately, given they are all SFP, only the 2-10 model is practical IMO.

 

[Dave Chilson]

Haha. I just think everyone is thinking wishfully. Swaro glass in a durable package would be quite intriguing. Unfortunately, given they are all SFP, only the 2-10 model is practical IMO.

Ok. I’ll bite. Why the 10x limit with SFP? Be kind I’m new here!

 

[SDHNTR]

Ok. I’ll bite. Why the 10x limit with SFP? Be kind I’m new here!

This was just covered in another thread. Copy and paste…

Can you explain what happens if you go higher?

Field of view matters! Magnification shrinks FOV. So much so that anything above 12-15x (imo, that’s somewhat subjective) shrinks FOV so much it becomes detrimental for hunting. You can’t find animals quickly, can’t spot your hits, can’t see where the animal went after impact, can’t get back on target for a follow up, etc. And if your reticle has wind holds (you want those) in order for them to be accurate, you need to be on max power. So in essence, in order to use your reticle properly for wind, you need to be at max power. Now your FOV has shrunken to the point of being a negative factor. Furthermore, there is simply never any need for more than about 12-15x for hunting. Never.

FFP “fixes” this because you can simply crank down to 10-12x to make a shot and your wind holds (subtensions on reticle) remain accurate at all power ranges. Or you could crank up for range shooting and to really get your zero precise. You just need to make sure the scope has a reticle that is visible at the lower powers. That’s the hard part. That said, they are out there.

Also compound the above with the fact that to get big mag, yet still have a usable low end mag, you usually need big zoom erector systems (6-8x+). High zoom erectors can cause problems (tunneling, focus, tight eye box, etc) that all make a scope less user friendly. Especially for hunting when you may be in awkward shooting positions.

 

[Ucsdryder]

I can’t get over that ugly ass illumination bubble on the back. Why da fack signed off on that?

 

[Dave Chilson]

This was just covered in another thread. Copy and paste…


Field of view matters! Magnification shrinks FOV. So much so that anything above 12-15x (imo, that’s somewhat subjective) shrinks FOV so much it becomes detrimental for hunting. You can’t find animals quickly, can’t spot your hits, can’t see where the animal went after impact, can’t get back on target for a follow up, etc. And if your reticle has wind holds (you want those) in order for them to be accurate, you need to be on max power. So in essence, in order to use your reticle properly for wind, you need to be at max power. Now your FOV has shrunken to the point of being a negative factor. Furthermore, there is simply never any need for more than about 12-15x for hunting. Never.

FFP “fixes” this because you can simply crank down to 10-12x to make a shot and your wind holds (subtensions on reticle) remain accurate at all power ranges. Or you could crank up for range shooting and to really get your zero precise. You just need to make sure the scope has a reticle that is visible at the lower powers. That’s the hard part. That said, they are out there.

Also compound the above with the fact that to get big mag, yet still have a usable low end mag, you usually need big zoom erector systems (6-8x+). High zoom erectors can cause problems (tunneling, focus, tight eye box, etc) that all make a scope less user friendly. Especially for hunting when you may be in awkward shooting positions.

Interesting take. I have both styles and prefer the SFP for hunting. The 3.5 end of the scope has great FOV and the reticle is visible at all ranges. For my eyes, too many of the FFP scope’s reticles aren’t visible to my eye until about 5 power which ruins the whole FOV thingy for me with FFP scopes. (Especially if there’s any kind of tree reticle.)

As far as limiting the power to 10x, when it gets to about 300 yards and beyond, I shoot more accurately at 18x versus 10x. Could I do it? Of course. But I’ve done it so much, I know what’s better for me. Aim small, miss small.

This scope has a 5x erector system, great clarity and eye relief. I agree on having wind holds on your reticle but can figure them really quickly for either type of scope so for me that’s a wash.

Plus, by elk season, I’ll have 1000+ rounds through this scope! (Provided that plastic thingy doesn’t let loose inside!)

 

[Choot]

would you be willing to do some drop testing with it?

 

[Dave Chilson]

would you be willing to do some drop testing with it?

No. That’s silly. Try not and drop your optics and they will last a long time. Do they do that here too? This place gets more exciting every day!