Surely some of you chemist/engineers/can think of a way to mate CF with aluminum.

[philos]

I was doing research on the Durston X-Dome 1+ and noticed about the only real concern I see is the carbon fiber pole frame durability under stress.

It struck me there should be a way to combine these 2 materials or replace portions of the CF frame with aluminum at stress points or at points that are not in a straight line. This is likely showing my ignorance but what do y'all think? You would lose some of the weight savings benefit of the CF frame but on a smaller tent that shouldn't be terribly significant.

I may try grafting a carbon fiber tree with an aluminum tree and solve the issue straight away. I'll call it Carboluminum.

 

[ozyclint]

So the only concern is complete failure of the structure that is your shelter?

I'll take a weight penalty if it means the shelter will work and keep me alive. I've laid in my hilleberg's with terrible weather outside thinking if the tent fails now I'd be in a lot of trouble. Didn't regret the weight penalty in those moments

 

[feanor]

Isn’t the full metal jacket by Easton a combination of the two?

 

[Eagle]

I was doing research on the Durston X-Dome 1+ and noticed about the only real concern I see is the carbon fiber pole frame durability under stress.

It struck me there should be a way to combine these 2 materials or replace portions of the CF frame with aluminum at stress points or at points that are not in a straight line. This is likely showing my ignorance but what do y'all think? You would lose some of the weight savings benefit of the CF frame but on a smaller tent that shouldn't be terribly significant.

I may try grafting a carbon fiber tree with an aluminum tree and solve the issue straight away. I'll call it Carboluminum.

It's been done, but not commercially viable yet. Perhaps in the future. Lots of things like ACC arrows out there that combine both in a tent pole type situation, but a true combination weave is tough.

Biggest issue is galvanic corrosion of the aluminum, but it could be protected to some degree.

Manufacturing of Aluminum Matrix Composites Reinforced with Carbon Fiber Fabrics by High Pressure Die Casting - PMC

Aluminum matrix composites reinforced with carbon fiber have been manufactured for the first time by infiltrating an A413 aluminum alloy in carbon fiber woven using high-pressure die casting (HPDC). Composites were manufactured with unidirectional ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[BBob]

Lots of things like ACC arrows out there that combine both in a tent pole type situation, but a true combination weave is tough.

Easton used to supply tent poles made exactly like the ACC arrows (they probably were existing arrow shafts and I want to say they were likely 3-60's) way back when ACC’s came out. I had a Sierra Designs 1p tent that used them. The end connections between the pole sections were reinforced with a woven Kevlar sleeve. They had some breakage on the rear pole section. Sierra fixed it and warranted replacement pole sections for the back end of the tent. So yes it has been done in the past.

I sold that tent years ago to someone here on RS so mby if they see this they can comment on how it’s fared. Other than the original rear pole sections (which did break) I never had issues and the replacement rear did fine

 

[The Fat Coyote]

It's been done, but not commercially viable yet. Perhaps in the future. Lots of things like ACC arrows out there that combine both in a tent pole type situation, but a true combination weave is tough.

Biggest issue is galvanic corrosion of the aluminum, but it could be protected to some degree.

Manufacturing of Aluminum Matrix Composites Reinforced with Carbon Fiber Fabrics by High Pressure Die Casting - PMC

Aluminum matrix composites reinforced with carbon fiber have been manufactured for the first time by infiltrating an A413 aluminum alloy in carbon fiber woven using high-pressure die casting (HPDC). Composites were manufactured with unidirectional ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

100%
carbon bonded directly to aluminum creates galvanic corrosion- this is why old carbon/aluminum bike frames would de-bond and catastrophically fail on people.

Easton arrows- like their X10s, ACCs, ACEs, if you guys have ever shot one into the dirt or into a piece of wood, when they break, they have what looks like a really thin paper layer around the aluminum. Not sure exactly what this material is.

In bicycle manufacturing i believe they got around galvanic corrosion by putting a layer of fiberglass between the carbon and aluminum

 

[BBob]

Not sure exactly what this material is.

I think it is referred to as a "scrim" layer. There's lot of different materials out there. A lot of the newer carbon/alu bonded bikes use a liquid coating on the lugs prior to bonding the carbon tubes. They still get failures though.

 

[Macchina]

I will never use a composite pole over a well done aluminum pole. The failure mode for composites is delamination, at best it's an inch or 2, at worst it's feet long of glass shards.

An aluminum pole failure mode is a collapse bend/break. It is contained to a small section and can be repaired with a simple tent pole repair sleeve in the field.

A failed carbon or fiberglass pole will often be unrepairable in the field rendering the whole pole unusable.

The issue with Carbon fiber as well is that it's weakest point is at the connections to other materials. You can't really butt carbon fiber up to anything and bond it and expect it to hold. Carbon fiber is only strong in tension (bending to a certain point is only simple tension on the outer surface of a structure), but it is extremely brittle. So a small cut or a sharp impact can shatter it surprisingly easily even it it is extremely strong under ideal loading scenarios.

Carbon fiber is also (obviously) not homogonous. There are millions of fibers in most carbon fiber builds. When a carbon fiber structure is bent some fibers are stressed far more than others and they break. Carbon also does not have an infinite life so it will always fail eventually. Carbon fiber is best used on structures that are meant to resist bending (Like a boat), not on structures meant to bend (like a tent pole). The process to create carbon fiber requires near-perfect alignment of the fibers. If this process is not correct you can have a failure cascade (starts with a small fiber failure which loads the structure in that one point causing localized flexure adding up to complete failure).

Aluminum has a much more predictable failure mode and is homogonous. It is also easier to repair. Yes it's slightly heavier but it's not as heave as a completely useless tent you have to pack out.

 

[flyfisher117]

3M has an adhesive that works. Not great but it works ha. We used it at work on a prototype.