Substitute for 155 Lapua Scenar?

[Lonewolf72]

I worked up a hunting load last year for my 20" Mauser M12 .308 (11.5" twist) using a Lapua Scenar. I am running low on these projectiles, but unfortunately they are now very difficult to find. Since I can no longer find them, what might be a suitable alternative to the Scenar? 155 ELD-M, 168 ELD-M, 168 TMK...something else? I plan to use this load mostly for deer hunting, but possibly for elk and occasionally for target. I initially opted for the 155 Scenar due to rumors of good on-game performance, particularly while using a short barrel and suppressor. Any thoughts for an alternative would be appreciated. Thanks!

 

[bigunit]

The 155 eldm is what I would try. Very similar bc. In fact chances are I will be trying it shortly as I'm low on scenars as well.

 

[Bluumoon]

Some one had 500 155s for sale on here last week.

 

[Bigwilly556]

I typically shoot 178 eld-m out of my 16.5 308 10t proof sendero @2495 with suppressor, but recently tried some 155s. So far I've had excellent results on paper but no game yet. The wind does push them around a bit more than my 178s. I plan on using them for whitetail this year but will switch back to the 178s for elk.

 

[ElPollo]

My experience with Scenars is that they require a higher impact velocity to upset than any of the other bullets you mention and they have somewhat less than predictable expansion. They are a lot like a slightly tougher Berger in that they tumble before they fragment. I had pretty long “neck” in my wound channels. They didn’t open until half way through a deer or more at about 2300 fps impact velocity.

I would opt for the 155 gr TMK if I could find them, but would also be plenty happy with the ELDMs for what you are talking about. I doubt any animal would know the difference between getting hit by a TMK or an ELDM.

 

[Lonewolf72]

Some one had 500 155s for sale on here last week.

I'm sure at an inflated price....

 

[Bigwilly556]

Blue collar reloading has quantity 2 of 1000ct for $514.50 in stock. They are the new L version if that's what you were loading.

 

[Lonewolf72]

Blue collar reloading has quantity 2 of 1000ct for $514.50 in stock. They are the new L version if that's what you were loading.

Damn...that's a little more than I wanted to spend on projectiles, as the 308 is not my primary rifle. Unfortunately the truck needed tires this month

 

[Bluumoon]

Sold - Lapua .30 155 Grain OTM Scenar

5 unopened boxes same lot # for 500 total Lapua .30 155 Grain OTM Scenar projectiles. $225 shipped in the lower 48.

rokslide.com

cheaper than bluecollar

 

[Lonewolf72]

Sold - Lapua .30 155 Grain OTM Scenar

5 unopened boxes same lot # for 500 total Lapua .30 155 Grain OTM Scenar projectiles. $225 shipped in the lower 48.

rokslide.com

cheaper than bluecollar

Thank you!

 

[awildswanger]

I worked up a hunting load last year for my 20" Mauser M12 .308 (11.5" twist) using a Lapua Scenar. I am running low on these projectiles, but unfortunately they are now very difficult to find. Since I can no longer find them, what might be a suitable alternative to the Scenar? 155 ELD-M, 168 ELD-M, 168 TMK...something else? I plan to use this load mostly for deer hunting, but possibly for elk and occasionally for target. I initially opted for the 155 Scenar due to rumors of good on-game performance, particularly while using a short barrel and suppressor. Any thoughts for an alternative would be appreciated. Thanks!

The 155 eldm is what I would try. Very similar bc. In fact chances are I will be trying it shortly as I'm low on scenars as well.

Aside from availability, would y’all use scenars again?

 

[bigunit]

I mean they do shoot really well but to be fair I haven't even tried other offerings in the 155 gr range. I switched from the regular otm to the scenar l because I had to. The l is a longer coal to meet the same cbto as I was shooting before so they don't fit in my mags. I'll be doing some seating depth testing tomorrow to see if I can seat them deeper.

 

[Lonewolf72]

Aside from availability, would y’all use scenars again?

Unfortunately, I've not had the opportunity to observe on-game performance for myself. However, they shoot really well out of the 308s my brother and I use.

 

[vonb]

Unfortunately, I've not had the opportunity to observe on-game performance for myself. However, they shoot really well out of the 308s my brother and I use.

What is your load for the 155s in your M12? I have an M12 and want to try some of the Scenars I've had forever.

 

[ElPollo]

Unfortunately, I've not had the opportunity to observe on-game performance for myself. However, they shoot really well out of the 308s my brother and I use.

My experience with the scenars was with the 136 gr scenar-L in .264. It’s an accurate bullet, but the success on game was not what I had expected from reading the “death by scenar thread” on the campfire. I would not use them again. I shot three white-tail does at 50-120 yards over two days. The bullet tumbles before it fragments. I was seeing several inches of penetration before upset and fragmentation occurred, sometimes after the bullet went through the vitals. Had two I need to track. One was about 150 yards and one was about 250 and required another round. The third piled up after about 60 yards, partially because the bullet exited through the off side shoulder. If you are a shoulder shooter, your results may be better than mine. But I like to eat shoulders.

 

[Nomosendero]

I bought some recently because of the lengthy thread on the fire. It reminds me of the 77TMK thread here,
ElPollo, I do not doubt you, in fact I will take a pause on load development with that bullet in my 5R Milspec & give it more thought.
It amazes me how a product will do so well with folks on another forum but not so good with folks on a different forum. I have seen this with bullets, scopes, rifle brands, on and on.
But we get on these forums to learn and share info, so we just have to sort it out.
I do know with my 308 experience the 178 A-Max/ELDM has been great for Deer!

 

[Formidilosus]

I bought some recently because of the lengthy thread on the fire. It reminds me of the 77TMK thread here,
ElPollo, I do not doubt you, in fact I will take a pause on load development with that bullet in my 5R Milspec & give it more thought.
It amazes me how a product will do so well with folks on another forum but not so good with folks on a different forum. I have seen this with bullets, scopes, rifle brands, on and on.
But we get on these forums to learn and share info, so we just have to sort it out.
I do know with my 308 experience the 178 A-Max/ELDM has been great for Deer!

The large difference is “does well” doesn’t tell you much. The campfire threaded is decent, but is decidedly lacking pictures or evidence of wound channels, tissue damage, etc; nor is animal reaction after the shot discussed in detail. Contrasted with the 223 thread where very detailed necropsies, wound shape, tissue damage, wound width, depth of penetration, etc is discussed and shown in detail. As well impact velocities and distance traveled after the hit is given for the vast majority of shots.


I have a decent experience base with Scenars. What @ElPollo wrote is what Sceners do in tissue and tissue simulate- penetrate 4-6 inches before tumbling and they often do not fragment much.
They are known as “harder” bullets even in the campfire thread- one cannot have “harder” and “kills the same” with the same bullet.

 

[Nomosendero]

The large difference is “does well” doesn’t tell you much. The campfire threaded is decent, but is decidedly lacking pictures or evidence of wound channels, tissue damage, etc; nor is animal reaction after the shot discussed in detail. Contrasted with the 223 thread where very detailed necropsies, wound shape, tissue damage, wound width, depth of penetration, etc is discussed and shown in detail. As well impact velocities and distance traveled after the hit is given for the vast majority of shots.


I have a decent experience base with Scenars. What @ElPollo wrote is what Sceners do in tissue and tissue simulate- penetrate 4-6 inches before tumbling and they often do not fragment much.
They are known as “harder” bullets even in the campfire thread- one cannot have “harder” and “kills the same” with the same bullet.

Thinking about what you stated, I see what you mean. That thread has a great deal of dead animals taken but not so much in the way of internal damage/ terminal results pics.
And another thing I don't know ids how many of those shooters "went for bone" to get a little more upset.

 

[Tyler Holderby]

I used them last year, first time. 123 and 139 Scenars, each in 6.5 PRCs. Killed with both, I was happy. Here's the 123's (2830 muzzle) @ 200yds. Started penciling into the heart, had expansion on the heart exit. The 139s where similar as I recall, mule deer @ 400yds.

I remember reading some scenars; different caliber and weights did not perform equally, for whatever reason.

 

[awildswanger]

The large difference is “does well” doesn’t tell you much. The campfire threaded is decent, but is decidedly lacking pictures or evidence of wound channels, tissue damage, etc; nor is animal reaction after the shot discussed in detail. Contrasted with the 223 thread where very detailed necropsies, wound shape, tissue damage, wound width, depth of penetration, etc is discussed and shown in detail. As well impact velocities and distance traveled after the hit is given for the vast majority of shots.


I have a decent experience base with Scenars. What @ElPollo wrote is what Sceners do in tissue and tissue simulate- penetrate 4-6 inches before tumbling and they often do not fragment much.
They are known as “harder” bullets even in the campfire thread- one cannot have “harder” and “kills the same” with the same bullet.

With that being said, what ammo/bullet would you recommend out of a .308 Win to most closely equate to the .223 77gr TMK?