Subsonic hunting & cartridges

[Huntman777]

All I can say is a 500gr Maker Rex hits a deer like a baseball bat.

 

[Pilsner]

Well handgunhtr, I thought I'd gain more impact energy / penetration with a 45-70 compared to the 300aac. Going from 190 to 500gr of lead. 1 cannot just add more gas, cause speed of sound is a hard line. Doing a little research, the marlin might have issue cycling the 500gr pill... likely I'll keep using the 300aac

Can't you get an idea of penetration by comparing the Sectional Density (SD) of each bullet at the same velocity?

 

[nm.otter]

Can't you get an idea of penetration by comparing the Sectional Density (SD) of each bullet at the same velocity?

For a given projectile family, probably.

 

[Bluefish]

Well handgunhtr, I thought I'd gain more impact energy / penetration with a 45-70 compared to the 300aac. Going from 190 to 500gr of lead. 1 cannot just add more gas, cause speed of sound is a hard line. Doing a little research, the marlin might have issue cycling the 500gr pill... likely I'll keep using the 300aac

The 500g maker 45-70 bullets have lots of penetration, it’s around 1.5” long and 500g. If you listen to the Hornady podcast on the sub-X one of the guys says the 410 had the most penetration of anything they had tested, although I think that was at sonic speeds.

The 500g cycles in a 1895 no problem. Also as a sub, the recoil of a 500g isn’t bad. More than a 300 bo for sure, but a lot less than most 45-70 loads. I have shot the 400g subs in a pistol. Even dropped down to the 400’s as I felt the 500 had too much penetration.

 

[General RE LEE]

Bringing this back to the top because I’ll be hunting with subs here in a couple weeks at my suburban spot. I’ve got some 188 Discreets loaded up with H110 doing 1050. My goal is to keep it less than 100 yards and take heart/double lung shots. I haven’t shot one with a sub yet so I’ll be interested in the results.

 

[Bluefish]

Bringing this back to the top because I’ll be hunting with subs here in a couple weeks at my suburban spot. I’ve got some 188 Discreets loaded up with H110 doing 1050. My goal is to keep it less than 100 yards and take heart/double lung shots. I haven’t shot one with a sub yet so I’ll be interested in the results.

Pretty much all subs have the same trajectory. Bc is pretty immaterial at subsonic speeds. I would be cautious in an urban environment as subs don’t come apart like sonic rounds when they hit something. They can really penetrate and don’t lose

 

[Presswood_936]

Pretty much all subs have the same trajectory. Bc is pretty immaterial at subsonic speeds. I would be cautious in an urban environment as subs don’t come apart like sonic rounds when they hit something. They can really penetrate and don’t lose

He’s using discreet ballistics expanding copper bullets , pretty much the best expanding projectile made for 300blk

 

[Bluefish]

He’s using discreet ballistics expanding copper bullets , pretty much the best expanding projectile made for 300blk

Not saying they won’t work, simply that subs often don’t stop at or in the animal, they can continue a long way beyond. Not ideal where you don’t have backstop or may have something beyond the target that should not be hit. Unlike a thin jacketed sonic rounds that comes apart once it hits something, ie varmit rounds.

 

[Presswood_936]

Not saying they won’t work, simply that subs often don’t stop at the animal. My experience with makers is they keep going long after going through an animal. Unlike a thin jacketed sonic rounds that comes apart once it hits something, ie varmit rounds.

Shooting an animal in the vitals with an expanding copper sub like the discreet or makers is no different than shooting them with a broad head . Expect them to run a little ways before bleeding out . A neck or head shot drops them though .

 

[General RE LEE]

Not saying they won’t work, simply that subs often don’t stop at or in the animal, they can continue a long way beyond. Not ideal where you don’t have backstop or may have something beyond the target that should not be hit. Unlike a thin jacketed sonic rounds that comes apart once it hits something, ie varmit rounds.

I don’t think you are well versed on projectiles specifically designed to expand at speeds as low as 800-900 FPS. Granted I don’t disagree with you in regards to safety and what’s beyond target, there are new bullet designs specifically for sub sonic hunting.

 

[Bluefish]

I don’t think you are well versed on projectiles specifically designed to expand at speeds as low as 800-900 FPS. Granted I don’t disagree with you in regards to safety and what’s beyond target, there are new bullet designs specifically for sub sonic hunting.

I do hunt deer with subs. I use maker subs in both 45-70 and 360 buckhammer. They work great. I also have used the Hornady ones for practice as they are cheaper, especially when you buy the blems.

I was just really surprised how much penetration a 500g subsonic offers. I expect it would go through several deer. Even going slow, a big chuck of copper keeps going for a long way. I think the maximum lethal range of the maker is around 800 yards before it won’t expand. Subs don’t lose velocity like sonic rounds, other than the excessive drop and time of flight they are capable of taking an animal at long ranges. I think you missed my point of why I wouldn’t use them in a suburban environment. Nothing to do with lethality, but the fact that they don’t slow down or stop when they hit something.

 

[General RE LEE]

I do hunt deer with subs. I use maker subs in both 45-70 and 360 buckhammer. They work great. I also have used the Hornady ones for practice as they are cheaper, especially when you buy the blems.

I was just really surprised how much penetration a 500g subsonic offers. I expect it would go through several deer. Even going slow, a big chuck of copper keeps going for a long way. I think the maximum lethal range of the maker is around 800 yards before it won’t expand. Subs don’t lose velocity like sonic rounds, other than the excessive drop and time of flight they are capable of taking an animal at long ranges. I think you missed my point of why I wouldn’t use them in a suburban environment. Nothing to do with lethality, but the fact that they don’t slow down or stop when they hit something.

I talked to the owner of Discreet Ballistics. What you’re describing is nothing like how the owner described the terminal performance of his 188 Selous Expanders. According to him, the bullet will expand rapidly and lodge in the offside hide. With that said, maybe I’ll have a different experience in the field.

 

[minas stiris]

My boss shot a doe with a sub-sonic .45-70 this weekend. It was VERY effective!

 

[Bluefish]

I talked to the owner of Discreet Ballistics. What you’re describing is nothing like how the owner described the terminal performance of his 188 Selous Expanders. According to him, the bullet will expand rapidly and lodge in the offside hide. With that said, maybe I’ll have a different experience in the field.

Maybe at 188g they don’t have enough energy to penetrate deeply. The 500g, went through the deer, leaving lung on the ground behind it, hit a tree behind the deer, then going through it. Never found the bullet. Deer went 5 yards. All from a round with only 1000 ftlbs of energy. Further reinforcing that energy isn’t that critical.

I want to try the 250g maker in 35 cal as Iowa had a minimum energy of 500 at the muzzle. I have used the 205’s and they are movie quiet, but marginal for legal requirements.