Stone Glacier Re-Warming Drill

[Ryan Avery]

It's usually done with synthetic clothing. It's interesting how the treated down held up.

 

[Chad.frank]

It's usually done with synthetic clothing. It's interesting how the treated down held up.

This was a great video. Kind of opposite of the drill that Sitka has run in the past.


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[mj23polaris]

Now with treated down, does the treatment "dissipate" or "wash away" over time the more and more moisture passes over the down?

Can you re treat it in a wash with a detergent?



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[Steve O]

They went over their down treatment. Pretty amazing! Good guys at Stone Glacier, I trust them.

 

[cornfedkiller]

They went over their down treatment. Pretty amazing! Good guys at Stone Glacier, I trust them.

They explained how the down works at first, but they never mentioned how long that DWR lasts on the down and/or whether or not you can re-treat it yourself... Unless they've covered that somewhere and I missed it.

 

[AK Troutbum]

I’ve been using treated down puffy gear and quilts now for about 5 years and although I’ve never tested it to the extent of their test, I have on many occasions come back to camp very wet, put all my puffy gear and beanie on, then into the quilt for the night. It’s always pretty miserable initially, and although I’m usually wet for some time, I’ve always warmed up pretty quickly, and by the next morning, I have always been 100% dry. Occasionally I’ve experienced condensation trapped between the outer quilt fabric and the inner bivy fabric, but that has always been in the foot box area, and never affected my comfort or hampered the drying of my feet.

In regards to the longevity of treated down, I remember reading something several years ago that talked about a 80/20 rule. This rule basically stated that for approximately every 20 washings, the treated down would be lost (for lack of a better word), down to 80% of its original state. There are special products for washing treated down (Nikwax being one), that will increase the longevity, but washings will still degrade it to some extent.


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[Chad.frank]

Well hopefully Ryan or one of the guys at SG can weigh in on that question and give us a concrete answer. SG makes some incredible gear and I just started adding some of their clothing to my Sitka stuff. Pretty excited to try it out.


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[JimCraig]

I love seeing this stuff, good on them. I won't speak to SG products specifically, but to answer the question, yes treated down will lose its DWR at some point and it CAN be retreated. Whether it is more or less effective is up to several factors, but it can be done.

 

[mj23polaris]

Update on my post/question from earlier


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[NUGGET]

Update on my post/question from earlier
View attachment 164453

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Dang SG could run for office with answers like that. Ask them what the life expectancy of the garment is? Haha

I’ve had a treated down sleeping bag for 5ish years. It’s been soaked a time or two. Didn’t die.

 

[Ryan Avery]

I emailed Lyle from SG. This is his response.

"The treatment on our down, HyperDry™ is a natural wax-based compound that works the same way traditional DWR chemicals do by building a carbon-hydrogen chain on the down cluster to decrease the surface tension, which ultimately causes water to bead and roll off. Additionally, HyperDry™ tests out at 80% longer than other water-resistant down on the market in the standard Hydrophobic Shake Test. The Hydrophobic Shake Test measures how much time elapses before down becomes fully saturated. The test is performed by placing down and water in a sealed jar and then shaking it for an extended period.

The DWR like treatment on HyperDry is designed to last for the lifecycle of the garment. The lifecycle of the garment will be unique to each individual and dependent on use. Over an extended period (years), the HyperDry treatment will wear off. However, one thing to keep in mind is all insulation; even synthetic insulation will breakdown over time. Currently, there is no way to retreat the hydrophobic down.

Another key element of the Stone Glacier down products is their outer shell. The shell is constructed with a Pertex® Quantum fabric. This light and soft fabric allow insulation to fully loft while also being quiet, windproof, lightweight, and extremely packable. Additionally, the shell is woven with Pertex® Y Fuse filaments. These filaments create a tightly interlocking structure which improves downproof and water beading properties. Last, the shell is treated with SuperDWR, a water repellent finish that maintains its high performance through extended wash and wear cycles."

 

[sneaky]

Seems like ducks and geese have been doing just fine without hydro-carbon chain treatments. Everything has a tradeoff. They aren't going to give a definitive answer on life of a garment because some guys are way harder on gear than others. Everyone always says their treatment is the best, they are great at marketing.

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[Ryan Avery]

I can only speak to what I have witnessed first hand with my SG jacket. I wore it in the rain and snow as my only outer on several hunts. It obviously leaked through the seam but it never lost its loft. It's by far the most used puffy I have. But I think the jury is still out on treated down over the long haul.

I really had my doubts about the 15D Pertex face fabric holding feathers well. But I only lost a few feathers with lots of use. Outside of me burning a big hole in the sleave. Looked like some shot a goose. HAHA

 

[cornfedkiller]

Seems like ducks and geese have been doing just fine without hydro-carbon chain treatments.

They fly south when it gets that cold

 

[sneaky]

They fly south when it gets that cold

The stupid ones don't lol

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[Chad.frank]

I emailed Lyle from SG. This is his response.

"The treatment on our down, HyperDry is a natural wax-based compound that works the same way traditional DWR chemicals do by building a carbon-hydrogen chain on the down cluster to decrease the surface tension, which ultimately causes water to bead and roll off. Additionally, HyperDry tests out at 80% longer than other water-resistant down on the market in the standard Hydrophobic Shake Test. The Hydrophobic Shake Test measures how much time elapses before down becomes fully saturated. The test is performed by placing down and water in a sealed jar and then shaking it for an extended period.

The DWR like treatment on HyperDry is designed to last for the lifecycle of the garment. The lifecycle of the garment will be unique to each individual and dependent on use. Over an extended period (years), the HyperDry treatment will wear off. However, one thing to keep in mind is all insulation; even synthetic insulation will breakdown over time. Currently, there is no way to retreat the hydrophobic down.

Another key element of the Stone Glacier down products is their outer shell. The shell is constructed with a Pertex Quantum fabric. This light and soft fabric allow insulation to fully loft while also being quiet, windproof, lightweight, and extremely packable. Additionally, the shell is woven with Pertex Y Fuse filaments. These filaments create a tightly interlocking structure which improves downproof and water beading properties. Last, the shell is treated with SuperDWR, a water repellent finish that maintains its high performance through extended wash and wear cycles."

Thank you Ryan for this response. Sheds plenty of light on the subject I would say.


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[Chad.frank]

I emailed Lyle from SG. This is his response.

"The treatment on our down, HyperDry is a natural wax-based compound that works the same way traditional DWR chemicals do by building a carbon-hydrogen chain on the down cluster to decrease the surface tension, which ultimately causes water to bead and roll off. Additionally, HyperDry tests out at 80% longer than other water-resistant down on the market in the standard Hydrophobic Shake Test. The Hydrophobic Shake Test measures how much time elapses before down becomes fully saturated. The test is performed by placing down and water in a sealed jar and then shaking it for an extended period.

The DWR like treatment on HyperDry is designed to last for the lifecycle of the garment. The lifecycle of the garment will be unique to each individual and dependent on use. Over an extended period (years), the HyperDry treatment will wear off. However, one thing to keep in mind is all insulation; even synthetic insulation will breakdown over time. Currently, there is no way to retreat the hydrophobic down.

Another key element of the Stone Glacier down products is their outer shell. The shell is constructed with a Pertex Quantum fabric. This light and soft fabric allow insulation to fully loft while also being quiet, windproof, lightweight, and extremely packable. Additionally, the shell is woven with Pertex Y Fuse filaments. These filaments create a tightly interlocking structure which improves downproof and water beading properties. Last, the shell is treated with SuperDWR, a water repellent finish that maintains its high performance through extended wash and wear cycles."

Thank you Ryan for this response. Sheds plenty of light on the subject I would say.


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[kevlar88]

They didn't seem to fond of merino base layers at all. I'm curious as to what synthetics they are using for base layers.

 

[Chad.frank]

They didn't seem to fond of merino base layers at all. I'm curious as to what synthetics they are using for base layers.

Merino takes longer to dry is the reason for that.


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[kevlar88]

Merino takes longer to dry is the reason for that.


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Yes, I understand that. Do you know what synthetics they were using as a base layer?