Stone Glacier bought by Vista Outdoors

[Dos Perros]

Yeah I’m sure the $900 bell moto 10 is a crappy knock off helmet…. Also seems like gold tip and beestinger have pretty much been the same and added new high end stuff since they went to vista. I don’t follow the bullets side as much but I know the engineers at cci are continuing to work on building new product, getting innovative new machines, and the number of people has only increased over the years.

Well I'll have to admit I don't know bike helmets very well. I did find this article of 'who's wearing what in the Tour de France' and Bell isn't mentioned once.

Tour de France helmets: Who's wearing what?

Whether it's for style, aerodynamics, weight, comfort or the all-important safety, if you want to wear the same helmet as the pros, here's what they're wearing

www.cyclingnews.com

Maybe it's perspective, but I definitely don't see Bee Stinger as an innovation leader in their space. Stokerized, maybe Bowfinger?

CCI makes good primers for sure.

 

[TheTone]

Well I'll have to admit I don't know bike helmets very well. I did find this article of 'who's wearing what in the Tour de France' and Bell isn't mentioned once.

Tour de France helmets: Who's wearing what?

Whether it's for style, aerodynamics, weight, comfort or the all-important safety, if you want to wear the same helmet as the pros, here's what they're wearing

www.cyclingnews.com

Maybe it's perspective, but I definitely don't see Bee Stinger as an innovation leader in their space. Stokerized, maybe Bowfinger?

CCI makes good primers for sure.

But Giro is and they’re a vista company. The Moto 10 is a dirt bike helmet and is worn by a number of champions in their sport.

I’ve just found all the vista bashing and speculation odd. I’m done on these threads

 

[Dos Perros]

Speculating seems like a very natural human thing to do.

We have entire Sunday morning TV shows dedicated to prognosticating who's going to win a football game and how. I've seen speculation here on Rokslide with respect to wolf/grizzly management, other game management policy changes, impacts of weather conditions, COVID, etc. People like to look ahead and predict and plan. It's as beneficial as it is entertaining.

I think people would be just as dismayed if Seek Outside got bought out by MSR or something like that, Kifaru by North Face, Western Mountaineering by Kelty, etc etc. People align their identities and personal brands with the products they buy, or vice versa. I don't get it, but people put stickers of brands they consume on their vehicles.

I don't think it's unreasonable to interpret an acquisition like this as an unfortunate consequence of capitalism with definitely some pros, but also some cons.

 

[tdhanses]

Well I'll have to admit I don't know bike helmets very well. I did find this article of 'who's wearing what in the Tour de France' and Bell isn't mentioned once.

Tour de France helmets: Who's wearing what?

Whether it's for style, aerodynamics, weight, comfort or the all-important safety, if you want to wear the same helmet as the pros, here's what they're wearing

www.cyclingnews.com

Maybe it's perspective, but I definitely don't see Bee Stinger as an innovation leader in their space. Stokerized, maybe Bowfinger?

CCI makes good primers for sure.

I may be wrong but Bell makes motorcycle/car racing helmets, not bicycle or atleast is known as one of the top brands in the motorcycle/car world. Maybe they do also make a bicycle helmet.

Bell Sports - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Fellow hunter and professional athlet, one of the best supercross/motocross riders wears Bell.

 

[mtwarden]

I remember years ago Dana Designs was bought up and they moved production out of Montana.

Several years later he started up Mystery Ranch and brought jobs back to Montana. Hopefully we don't have to go through that cycle again with Stone Glacier (fingers crossed).

 

[TwentyFive-Yard]

Wait till vista buys meateater, mate - then El Plan will be in place...

I honestly have no skin in this game. I do live very close to Stone Glacier’s HQ’s and by coincidence MeatEater’s as well. I just don’t buy SG gear nor do I watch MeatEater anymore. SG’s designs just haven’t ever appealed to me as a end-user though I admired their cottage brand nature. I was hesitant to even watch ME to begin with, I resisted friends trying to get me to watch until I finally did. Rinella is at his best when is actually dishing out useful information, he is also at his worst when you see the canned “arguments” between he and Clay Newcomb; honestly no one cares how right you need to be. The show took a noticeable turn in direction when they started buying other companies. Honestly I get it, he’s gotta capture his money while he can, it’s just become unattractive. What made me stop watching the show was the guest celebrities, and the final straw for me was season 9’s Colorado muzzleloader. They made every fine effort to make it clear that hunters lose animals on bad hits, it happens - I know it’s happened to me. What still drives me crazy about that episode is that it clearly shows that he hunted with a failed piece of equipment, the ramp sight fell off and he screwed it back on, where was the sighting in of the rifle to know that you’re on target? Looks like a bad hit because of some bad decisions. It’s almost as if they went to the field start from the local sports store with a gun that hadn’t been tested.

Kurt Racicot can sell what ever he wants, it was his to sell. However, when your remaining position in said company is lead product designer, you don’t have a say how the company is going to grow. You sold.

 

[TwentyFive-Yard]

I remember years ago Dana Designs was bought up and they moved production out of Montana.

Several years later he started up Mystery Ranch and brought jobs back to Montana. Hopefully we don't have to go through that cycle again with Stone Glacier (fingers crossed).

I still have a Dana Designs bombpack, and use it, that I bought in 2002. Bought from Barrel Mountaineering in downtown Bozeman that doesn’t exist anymore. The internal frame rods aren’t what they used to be, but as a ski day pack, its still performing.

 

[mtwarden]

I still have a Dana Designs bombpack, and use it, that I bought in 2002. Bought from Barrel Mountaineering in downtown Bozeman that doesn’t exist anymore. The internal frame rods aren’t what they used to be, but as a ski day pack, its still performing.

he gave game wardens a pretty decent discount on his packs back in the day; I had two of his packs (one a Bomb pack), like a dumb a$$ I sold them both

 

[ODB]

@TwentyFive-Yard i wondered about that rear sight as well. Would have thought showing him verifying zero would have been instructional and wouldn’t make folks like us go “huh?”

I also think the “I have to kill something” was in play in that episode. Took a shot too far, bad angle…recipe for a wound.

 

[Dos Perros]

There is a ton of academic research on this topic. Generally the consensus is that a startup being acquired by a larger company kills innovation. This article lays it out fairly well.

Overheard

Tips in a snowstorm: The situation in Texas is tragic and shocking. But one Austin CEO who was snowed in got some angel investing tips from Andreessen Horowitz's Andrew Chen. Bar lowered: Seed startups that raised a lot of cash used to have a higher bar to get a Series A deal, but with VC cash...

www.protocol.com

One factor causing founders to take the leap and sell is often the thinking that: "We can keep things the same after the acquisition." This is the biggest fallacy. Noam Bardin, founder of Waze, wrote about the ways things changed once Waze was acquired by Google. Here are just a few points that jumped out at me:

• Company/product/employee alignment: In a startup, if a product does well, everyone does well. In a big company, the company doing well is more important than the individual product. "Being promoted has more impact on the individual's economic success than the product growth. The decision [of] which product to work on stems from the odds of getting promoted, and thus we began onboarding people with the wrong state of mind — seeing Waze as a stepping stone and not as a calling."
• Hiring/firing: In a startup, if someone no longer fits, you fire them. In a big corporation, you promote sideways (or up). "I learned the hard way that if another manager is recommending a great employee to hire, that they are probably trying to get rid of the employee since they cannot fire them."
• Distractions: Big companies have to worry about important things that startups don't, and many of them are prone to having meetings. All these things slow startups down. Bardin notes: "We start companies to build products that serve people, not to sit in meetings with lawyers."
• Scrappiness/entitlement: Startups need to be willing to run through a wall, founders will say. But at a big company, why run through a wall when you can get a free massage? "We had lunch in the cafeteria, and while on line, a Googler ahead of us was overheard saying, 'What? Sushi again???' which became our inside joke around entitlement. But several months later, we had been co-opted as well, and it was Waze employees complaining about the food."
• And risk: At a big company, you can't take the big risks that a startup needs to, notes Hunter Walk.

 

[MuleDeerMike]

kind of surprised it wasn’t Steve Rinella that bought them.

Same. They probably got out-bid by Vista.

 

[TXJacob]

Same. They probably got out-bid by Vista.

And the highest bidder is...

 

[Mable300]

Vista Outdoors owns a bunch of outdoors and shooting sports companies, many of which were, are, and will continue to be made in the USA. They strongly support the 2A.

Not every corporation is evil.

That not really my feeling..it’s the new creation of a middle man and the eradication of buying direct from the manufacturer…back in the day before Jason Hairston made Kuiu, he developed Sitka gear..then sold it to gore-Tex..now it’s shit and absurdly expensive, because the “middle man” is the Dept stores it’s sold in. Hopefully SG will stay as the direct supplier like Kuiu, so prices will stay reasonable.


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[AK Troutbum]

That not really my feeling..it’s the new creation of a middle man and the eradication of buying direct from the manufacturer…back in the day before Jason Hairston made Kuiu, he developed Sitka gear..then sold it to gore-Tex..now it’s shit and absurdly expensive, because the “middle man” is the Dept stores it’s sold in. Hopefully SG will stay as the direct supplier like Kuiu, so prices will stay reasonable.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Um, IDK about that. SG may have started off that way, but there are several retail outlets that have been selling SG products for several years now. I know that Barney's Sports Chalet in Anchorage has been selling their packs for at least a couple years now and also selling some of, if not all of, their clothing line.

 

[WCB]

That not really my feeling..it’s the new creation of a middle man and the eradication of buying direct from the manufacturer…back in the day before Jason Hairston made Kuiu, he developed Sitka gear..then sold it to gore-Tex..now it’s shit and absurdly expensive, because the “middle man” is the Dept stores it’s sold in. Hopefully SG will stay as the direct supplier like Kuiu, so prices will stay reasonable.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What if they sell to dealers and offer direct from factory...You most likely will pay a higher price direct as they can't out price their dealers. What if it the same quality? Will you still by direct for the same product at the direct price or will you buy it for $100 less 5 minutes down the road from your house?

What happens if the access to more capital allows them to keep quality identical, service level remains the same, and you as a consumer perhaps gets more options of gear from them also? BUT....you have to purchase from a dreaded dealer? You buying or no?

What if they only allow their products to be sold to niche or special retailers/dealers and not "big box" stores? You know "buy local" type places?

 

[schmalzy]

Um, IDK about that. SG may have started off that way, but there are several retail outlets that have been selling SG products for several years now. I know that Barney's Sports Chalet in Anchorage has been selling their packs for at least a couple years now and also selling some of, if not all of, their clothing line.

Yep. Blackovis, 1shot, scheels. Can’t speak directly about scheels but the guys at blackovis and 1shot were awesome to deal with when I wanted to swap the belt on my xcurve, just like the guys at SG have been when I bought direct.

I like kuiu gear and have bought a lot of it. Direct to consumer is a cool model, but it’s got limitations like everything else.


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[sneaky]

That not really my feeling..it’s the new creation of a middle man and the eradication of buying direct from the manufacturer…back in the day before Jason Hairston made Kuiu, he developed Sitka gear..then sold it to gore-Tex..now it’s shit and absurdly expensive, because the “middle man” is the Dept stores it’s sold in. Hopefully SG will stay as the direct supplier like Kuiu, so prices will stay reasonable.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Jason was a co- founder of Sitka, he wasn't the only one. Also, Sitka isn't "shit" and isn't really any more expensive than any other high end camo clothing brands. Sounds like you've got an axe to grind with Sitka.

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[TheTone]

I could walk into multiple crummy outdoor stores near me and buy a bunch of SG products. First time I was looking at them at one store a salesman and another customer were checking them out and basically saying no one will ever buy them at the price or need them either.

 

[rtracebadger]

Countdown to their packs being 100% Vietnamese made and them still keeping that American flag on them.

I sure hope that doesn’t happen.

 

[AK Troutbum]

I could walk into multiple crummy outdoor stores near me and buy a bunch of SG products. First time I was looking at them at one store a salesman and another customer were checking them out and basically saying no one will ever buy them at the price or need them either.

No one will ever buy them at that price or need them either? I think that ship has already sailed.


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