Stolen valor in hunting

[JP100]

good and fair article. the amount of bull shit posts I see on FB every day drive me mad. I dont trust anyone that says only good things about a brand, all gear/brands have failures, if you haven't found that you aint testing it hard enough.
I could also add a whole page about hunters that hunt behind wire and with 'heli hunts'(AATH or Heli assist) here in NZ and post their pictures of their "extreme" mountain hunt in New Zealand when the reality is they hardly got their boots dirty walking from the lodge to the heli pad.
Be very skeptical when looking at trophies from NZ is my advice. probably 90% you see on face book is behind wire or heli assisted. No one posts a photo saying "here is my big tame stag I shot in a paddock, his name was rokko and he was a nice friendly stag" instead they say "trophy of a life time, such a well earned trophy" (actual quote from Facebook post)

Rant over

its been a long day......haha

 

[kodiakfly]

I remember when I first saw this happen...back in the 90's before the days of social media. I was fortunate enough to hang with a circle of pretty elite well-known hunters. I remember seeing a couple dead deer that had their pictures taken with no less than four different hunters, and then the following year that single deer and those several hunters with it, were in the bow hunting magazines...all passed off as different deer by different people in different places. It happens in muskie fishing too; guys sharing a fish, and even changing clothes and re-taking pictures to appear as though catching more fish. It's the reason I place little to no faith in hunting and fishing shows anymore and why many magazine ads barely turn my head.

That said, I don't fault them for it. It's business and business is advertising. And advertising is largely only what one believes to be true. Legally speaking, seldom do you see written in an ad, "so-and-so killed this animal..." Rather, it's just so-and-so posing with an animal and the consumer is left to assume they killed/caught it.

 

[Becca]

I enjoyed Tyler's article, and thought he succinctly identified something that has bothered me for quite awhile. In fact sometimes it makes me intentionally avoid the Internet, particularly Facebook and forums. I grow weary of the oneupmanship attitudes, and it makes me reluctant to share my own stories, photos or video because frankly I dont have much patience for the needless competition or armchair quarterbacking. The success of my trips (at least in my own mind) is very rarely dependent on being the one to pull the trigger, and some of my most satisfyingly hunts were times I harvested animals that wouldn't be considered "trophies" by most. Or times where I got to help someone else kill and pack out an animal. Or time spent in the field with people I care about, where nothing died but we came home heavy with stories and memories.

I read recently about a female hunter who was in some sort of internet "super extreme huntress contest", and it came out later that she had committed several game violations in multiple states. In the midst of the investigation it came out that one of the photos she posted online of herself and a deer she claimed she took with her bow was actually a deer she hit with her car, and then posed with for photos. Unbelievable. I had no idea there was so much pressure to appear "successful"...but I guess maybe I measure success different than some other people do.

 

[idig4au]

The success of my trips (at least in my own mind) is very rarely dependent on being the one to pull the trigger, and some of my most satisfyingly hunts were times I harvested animals that wouldn't be considered "trophies" by most. Or times where I got to help someone else kill and pack out an animal. Or time spent in the field with people I care about, where nothing died but we came home heavy with stories and memories.

^This. This post sums it up perfectly. Hunting isn't about inches nor should it be. The trophy is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[Where's Bruce?]

I enjoyed Tyler's article, and thought he succinctly identified something that has bothered me for quite awhile. In fact sometimes it makes me intentionally avoid the Internet, particularly Facebook and forums. I grow weary of the oneupmanship attitudes, and it makes me reluctant to share my own stories, photos or video because frankly I dont have much patience for the needless competition or armchair quarterbacking. The success of my trips (at least in my own mind) is very rarely dependent on being the one to pull the trigger, and some of my most satisfyingly hunts were times I harvested animals that wouldn't be considered "trophies" by most. Or times where I got to help someone else kill and pack out an animal. Or time spent in the field with people I care about, where nothing died but we came home heavy with stories and memories.

I read recently about a female hunter who was in some sort of internet "super extreme huntress contest", and it came out later that she had committed several game violations in multiple states. In the midst of the investigation it came out that one of the photos she posted online of herself and a deer she claimed she took with her bow was actually a deer she hit with her car, and then posed with for photos. Unbelievable. I had no idea there was so much pressure to appear "successful"...but I guess maybe I measure success different than some other people do.

Is she trying to become a prostaffer for Buttout?

 

[SDC]

Becca and MattB nailed it. Well said, both of you.

Now, if only more would clue into that wisdom...

 

[Kevin Dill]

For as long as hunters have compared results (of their hunting) there has been the desire to glorify one's self and appear better than the actual reality. Some are more business-like and determined about doing it, to the point they will push all others aside simply to insert themselves in a photo or hunting story. "Excellence By Association" is a common strategy in politics and advertising, and nowadays it applies to the sporting arena. The people who do this are easy (for me anyway) to spot, and I simply walk, or turn the page. I don't hate them, but their 'look at me and what I'm doing' need to be noticed and admired...isn't attractive. I am most unimpressed by those who can't get in front of a camera without perfecting their makeup and nail polish, while creating a mini-NASCAR scene of people and product endorsements. They are hunting for reasons I understand, but their emotional needs are much different than mine. Getting noticed and acknowledged is again tied to ego, and big egos are like big guts. They precede you everywhere and are decidedly unattractive.

In the end...EGO is the number one factor at work, closely followed by MONEY. You can find it in all walks of life and sporting endeavors. If you choose to walk in their tracks then you will step in their sh!t...no way around that. My choice has been not to walk that trail. I like to interact and communicate with good hunters. We share our pictures and stories honestly, without a need to preen our feathers in the presence of others. I enjoy my outdoor sporting endeavors immensely, but I could really care less if I'm known or remembered for it. This is what I do, but it's not who I am. Facebook?....nothing more than a personal place to advertise for many. Forums?....same on many sites. Think of it as a piece of real estate alongside the highway, and watch their personal billboards compete for attention. I'll be on a less traveled road somewhere.

 

[5MilesBack]

When I read the title of the thread I have to admit that being a former military guy my first thought was who on earth would compare "stolen valor" to hunting. After reading it I understand why he made the comparison, but "stolen valor" still stirs up a few different emotions that don't exist in my perception of fake hunters or the like.

I don't do FB or Twitter or any of the other social media stuff so could care less what people put on there. As for forums, it becomes pretty easy to identify fakes. Especially when they come on looking for advice as a newbie to something one week and then think they are the resident expert on the same subject 2 weeks later. Anyone with even a little outdoor experience can spot the folks that have never set foot in the woods.

 

[Rucker61]

Good article for sure but I think most can read past the BS Rowdy Dowdies of the world, at least on this site, not clue about social media as I'm not on that junk.

"We're not relations".

 

[Josh Wright]

They forgot the category of the "Rokslide Faker" who learned everything they know about backcountry hunting from the comfort of their living rooms by reading this site.

i wouldn't go that far. There are some that use it to get better at mountain hunting. I grew up in the flatlands, and at 34, I feel like I have some catching up to do regarding backpack hunting. This site has been a wealth of knowledge when it comes to backpacking info. Now that I am in Colorado 80% of the time, I am able to see what info works for me and what info does not work.

 

[MattB]

I enjoyed Tyler's article, and thought he succinctly identified something that has bothered me for quite awhile. In fact sometimes it makes me intentionally avoid the Internet, particularly Facebook and forums. I grow weary of the oneupmanship attitudes, and it makes me reluctant to share my own stories, photos or video because frankly I dont have much patience for the needless competition or armchair quarterbacking. The success of my trips (at least in my own mind) is very rarely dependent on being the one to pull the trigger, and some of my most satisfyingly hunts were times I harvested animals that wouldn't be considered "trophies" by most. Or times where I got to help someone else kill and pack out an animal. Or time spent in the field with people I care about, where nothing died but we came home heavy with stories and memories.

Well put - there is only one person whose definition of "trophy" matters. I have all but stopped posting hunt success stories and pics on internet forums. I don't need other people to validate my accomplishments, and have no patience for the types who care to criticize to boost their own egos.

Josh, I should have added "...and then pretend to be an expert about it on the internet." Forums such as this are a great medium for exchanging ideas, and are a great place for those who want to learn. Even the most experienced backcountry hunters learn things from forums like this. It is when the folks who have little to no backcountry hunting experience start expressing their opinions (or more specifically, start passing the informed opinions of others off as their own) as a means of boosting their own egos that it gets tiring.

 

[Nick Muche]

I'd post my opinion, but Matt and Becca said it better than I ever could.

 

[Hoot]

Just my opinion, but I think this article is part of the problem. What makes the author feel he is qualified to invalidate anyone based on what equipment they promote, or how they work out, or how many animals they've killed? Social media has definitely contributed to this false sense that everyone's lives are perfect, and subconsciously people are constantly comparing themselves to everyone else. This author is just doing the same thing in my opinion...

Yes there are fakers out there, yes there are beginners that are overly enthusiastic, yes there are a ton of people on forums that have large egos, none of that changes how I hunt or how I view outdoorsmen in general...

 

[charvey9]

Interesting read and something I have thought about often as I sometimes feel caught in the middle of this show. In full disclosure I am on the prostaff of two small archery related companies. However I do not walk around boasting about my title, nor claim it makes me any sort of expert. In fact I would be the first to admit that my spot was earned more so by my work with the camera than with the bow. In that regard I do love photography as much as hunting and often post to social media. Photos are part of my experience and connection with the outdoors, and have been since way before facebook. The thought of getting lumped in with fakers does bother me.

Paying the bills is understandable, but keep in mind that very few people out there actually get paid to endorse a hunting product. Free or discounted gear is the norm. It annoys me what people will do and say to save 10% on a $50 product just to fulfill their obligations and hold a title. I get tired of all the facebook SPAM, and as a result I do not follow many hunting pages or hunters that I don't personally use or know despite the daily bombing of requests to like "such and such outdoors hunting team". I also regulate my own sharing as much as possible to things I am doing and a few other relevant/entertaining/funny things I might come across throughout the week. 90% of the people on facebook could benefit from following the "less is more" idea. The nice thing about facebook is that it is easy to manage what pops up on your feed.

It all comes down to personal integrity in who you choose to work with, how you hunt, and what you choose to share.

 

[gelton]

I enjoyed the article as well and have no issues with the point. I am proud to say that I have never had a facebook account and have never posted on or been a member of any other forum but this one. Definitely not a prostaffer just a lover of backcountry hunting and I am still learning how to perfect that, but am getting closer each year. So I am a little out of touch with the fakery but am sure that it goes on.

 

[bearcreekbandit]

Just my opinion, but I think this article is part of the problem. What makes the author feel he is qualified to invalidate anyone based on what equipment they promote, or how they work out, or how many animals they've killed? Social media has definitely contributed to this false sense that everyone's lives are perfect, and subconsciously people are constantly comparing themselves to everyone else. This author is just doing the same thing in my opinion...

Yes there are fakers out there, yes there are beginners that are overly enthusiastic, yes there are a ton of people on forums that have large egos, none of that changes how I hunt or how I view outdoorsmen in general...

I am the author and the article doesn't invalidate anyone based on what equipment they promote, how they work out, or how many animals they have killed. Neither is it an attack on anybody directly.
Equipment: it doesn't matter what equipment someone is promoting, what matters is whether or not they have the experienced background and have put that equipment to a legitimate test and objective evaluation. As stated clearly in the article, it's those who figuratively have their promotion written up as soon as the package is opened.
Work outs: I also clearly stated that there's nothing wrong at all with doing whatever work out you want, but the implication of the selling point is that it will make you a super hunter. I'd be willing to bet that those who put the most animals on the ground in that group (that is the goal after all...to become more effective at hunting) would acknowledge that although it played a part, the workout alone wasn't what made them successful, and as stated, on average, a the reasonably fit hunters that just hunt do as well or better. it's not the workout, it's the attitude in which it is promoted.
How many animals they've killed: Not once does the article, or do I consciously belittle or invalidate someone just because they haven't killed as many animals. The point made in the article is clearly referencing those who promote hunting products based on the product's merits in putting animals on the ground, after taking only one or two animals. for a more accurate objective evaluation of many products, as in any "experiment," the results have to be shown as repeatable. The product may in fact be good, but without the background of experience, and several successful trials, how can anyone say with any certainty that this product is great, or the best or any other adjective used.
Comparing myself to others: True, no one is perfect, myself included, I miss, i make bad shots, I screw up stalks...it happens. Nowhere do I say I am a superior hunter to even the new guys or gals, the entire point is for each of us to be honest with ourselves and others about where we are at in our "journey." a person inflating their personal image does them no good, or anyone else for that matter. I have way more respect for someone who hunts because they love to hunt, even if they have killed nothing, but don't try to pretend, than someone who does.

 

[justin davis]

I liked it and think we have seen this very thing on RokSlide, especially when it comes to product reviews. Over the last year or so I have chosen to be more selective about my posts, writtings and especially my pictures. This is the only forum I actively participate on because of the minimal BS.

Justin, what are your thoughts?

My thoughts are that the article touches on how I feel and makes me feel better that there are others out there that feel the same. I think some hurt feelings will come from guys who the article basically describes.

There is nothing wrong with sharing photos, stories, or input in facebook and online forumns. I'm all for that.

The article basically describes a couple people I see (but don't persoanlly know) on Facebook.

I get a little irritated at the "prostaff fakers" who often promote gear they haven't even used. Just saw a guy the other day on Facebook (I won't mention a name). He recently got the hook up with a boot company, bow company, and who knows what over company's. But he started saying how the bows are the best and the boots are the best he has ever used. Yet he has never used the boots yet and recently just got the bow. Before that he prompted other company's. Too me that just fake and deceiving to people who don't know better. Nothing wrong with promoting products. Atleast use them for a Season or a hunt before you say they are best. But it is what it is.

There is a lot of "pop star" wannabes out there. Posting too many selfies and putting on a pretend show. Not everyone can be famous and be like Cameron Hanes. But a lot of guys are trying.

I have a lot more respect for the guys who are great hunters and outdoorsmans yet don't self promote like crazy. There's a lot of guys out there who you would never know about. I have a few friends like that. Never ever see their pics or selfies, yet they have killed a heck of a lot more animals and really great animals at that.

 

[Hoot]

Maybe it is because "stolen valor" strikes a different cord with me, as a combat veteran, and I was already put off when I started reading the article...

But it sounds to me like you are really just upset with the commercialization of the hunting industry and how products are marketed/promoted. These are tactics used in virtually every market out there. I don't think it is fair to equate those take advantage of a market strategy to those who steal valor. I also find it ironic that Outdoor Life will benefit from that market strategy...

 

[KHNC]

I am the author and the article doesn't invalidate anyone based on what equipment they promote, how they work out, or how many animals they have killed. Neither is it an attack on anybody directly.
Equipment: it doesn't matter what equipment someone is promoting, what matters is whether or not they have the experienced background and have put that equipment to a legitimate test and objective evaluation. As stated clearly in the article, it's those who figuratively have their promotion written up as soon as the package is opened.
Work outs: I also clearly stated that there's nothing wrong at all with doing whatever work out you want, but the implication of the selling point is that it will make you a super hunter. I'd be willing to bet that those who put the most animals on the ground in that group (that is the goal after all...to become more effective at hunting) would acknowledge that although it played a part, the workout alone wasn't what made them successful, and as stated, on average, a the reasonably fit hunters that just hunt do as well or better. it's not the workout, it's the attitude in which it is promoted.
How many animals they've killed: Not once does the article, or do I consciously belittle or invalidate someone just because they haven't killed as many animals. The point made in the article is clearly referencing those who promote hunting products based on the product's merits in putting animals on the ground, after taking only one or two animals. for a more accurate objective evaluation of many products, as in any "experiment," the results have to be shown as repeatable. The product may in fact be good, but without the background of experience, and several successful trials, how can anyone say with any certainty that this product is great, or the best or any other adjective used.
Comparing myself to others: True, no one is perfect, myself included, I miss, i make bad shots, I screw up stalks...it happens. Nowhere do I say I am a superior hunter to even the new guys or gals, the entire point is for each of us to be honest with ourselves and others about where we are at in our "journey." a person inflating their personal image does them no good, or anyone else for that matter. I have way more respect for someone who hunts because they love to hunt, even if they have killed nothing, but don't try to pretend, than someone who does.

Good to see the reach "rokslide" has around the world. Glad we have a place like this to get tips and have cool discussions. I liked your article as well. I am guilty of some of the things you mention on a smaller scale. I post pics of my "workouts" as well as when im at the gym.(not gym pics, just location). I do this to try and motivate some of my not so active hunting buddies. I too mostly avoid the EGO trip posters on facebook and various forums as it drives me nuts. However, some of the most successful hunters self promote the shit out of their training, physique and kill photos. Even the pics from the super successful hunters get run into the ground. Not really much different to me. So , even tho its not "stolen" , it can get old just the same. Thanks for the write up.

 

[Where's Bruce?]

Suddenly I'm kinda glad my hunt reports often end without a trophy photo and just contain a descriptive story showing what an adventure it was and how close i came to sealing the deal only to be left eating elk tag soup (again). No valor there...just a good time.