Stock vs Chassis for Recoil Control (Heavy Calibers)

[PathFinder]

I'm working on a plan for a build for next season. Currently working out some details but the general idea is a 300 Terminator that's light enough to backpack with but with the ability to add weights on truck based hunts. Probably a similar concept to Ryan's 33 XC build.
One of the things I need to decide on is a chassis (likely XLR Atom) or stock (Stockys VG2 with a weighted rail as an option).
The primary advantage I see to the chassis is the ability to fold the stock and make the gun easier to haul around in brush when it's on my pack. I believe I saw a post from @Formidilosus recently that mentioned chassis/pistol grip setups not managing recoil as well? Maybe @Ryan Avery or someone that has experience with both can chime in on the differences in handling heavy calibers on a chassis vs a stock? The other thing that may be worth considering is how well either rides a rear bag. My only experience with chassis were in light calibers and heavy rifles, so this will be new territory for me to some degree.

 

[Formidilosus]

The managing recoil thing is about where the thumb is placed and how that effects control (overall, not just recoil) and then manipulation.

 

[PathFinder]

The managing recoil thing is about where the thumb is placed and how that effects control (overall, not just recoil) and then manipulation.

Right, that makes sense. Can the right grip and technique on a chassis solve that problem, or does the stock just have an inherent advantage?

 

[Formidilosus]

Right, that makes sense. Can the right grip and technique on a chassis solve that problem, or does the stock just have an inherent advantage?

With true pistol grips it’s just reality. A vertical grip such as the KRG Bravo, Gunwerks Clymr, etc. allow you to do is to get the base of the thumb behind the grip, centerline to the bolt which aids in control- both or the gun and during recoil, while still give proper hand position. A true pistol grip does not- you either sacrifice control or bolt and safety manipulation speed/ease.


I’ll try to get some pics and maybe a video up to demo.

 

[PathFinder]

That would be great, I appreciate it. After this year I realized that I have some improvements to make in recoil and general control so I want to get it right on this build.
What is your take on thumb rests like XLR sells? Less effective because they aren't directly behind the bolt and bore?

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[Ryan Avery]

I'm working on a plan for a build for next season. Currently working out some details but the general idea is a 300 Terminator that's light enough to backpack with but with the ability to add weights on truck based hunts. Probably a similar concept to Ryan's 33 XC build.
One of the things I need to decide on is a chassis (likely XLR Atom) or stock (Stockys VG2 with a weighted rail as an option).
The primary advantage I see to the chassis is the ability to fold the stock and make the gun easier to haul around in brush when it's on my pack. I believe I saw a post from @Formidilosus recently that mentioned chassis/pistol grip setups not managing recoil as well? Maybe @Ryan Avery or someone that has experience with both can chime in on the differences in handling heavy calibers on a chassis vs a stock? The other thing that may be worth considering is how well either rides a rear bag. My only experience with chassis were in light calibers and heavy rifles, so this will be new territory for me to some degree.

I prefer a carbon stock over a chassis on a big magnum. To me it has less felt recoil. I also have a bad habit of over torquing a chassis with a pistol grip and shooting to the right with big Magnums.

I would recommend bedding the chassis with a big magnum.

 

[jimh406]

Frankly, I don't feel the recoil on game. Don't shoot a high recoiling rifle with super hot loads enough to be afraid of it. If you don't, you will be ok with stock or chassis. Practice with lighter loads if you feel you need to practice a lot.

 

[Ryan Avery]

Frankly, I don't feel the recoil on game. Don't shoot a high recoiling rifle with super hot loads enough to be afraid of it. If you don't, you will be ok with stock or chassis. Practice with lighter loads if you feel you need to practice a lot.

It’s not about be afraid of it. It’s more about spotting my shot. The more the rifle recoils the more the rifle moves. I see zero point is practicing with lighter loads on a LR Rifle.

 

[mmw194287]

I prefer a carbon stock over a chassis on a big magnum. To me it has less felt recoil. I also have a bad habit of over torquing a chassis with a pistol grip and shooting to the right with big Magnums.

I would recommend bedding the chassis with a big magnum.

Ryan, what is your cutoff for a "big magnum?" Does a 300 Win with 215 Hybrids count?

 

[PathFinder]

It’s not about be afraid of it. It’s more about spotting my shot. The more the rifle recoils the more the rifle moves. I see zero point is practicing with lighter loads on a LR Rifle.

Agreed, this is what I'm intending to address with my post. I want the best control possible of the rifle for field accuracy, recoil control to spot shots, and quicker follow ups as necessary.

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[carsonkeys]

With true pistol grips it’s just reality. A vertical grip such as the KRG Bravo, Gunwerks Clymr, etc. allow you to do is to get the base of the thumb behind the grip, centerline to the bolt which aids in control- both or the gun and during recoil, while still give proper hand position. A true pistol grip does not- you either sacrifice control or bolt and safety manipulation speed/ease.


I’ll try to get some pics and maybe a video up to demo.

Don’t want to derail the thread but I will offer that I would also appreciate photos/video of this. I constantly find myself with my thumb on my trigger hand side - it feels more comfortable to me. If I could see the real world benefits I might be able to force myself to relearn that.

 

[Ryan Avery]

Don’t want to derail the thread but I will offer that I would also appreciate photos/video of this. I constantly find myself with my thumb on my trigger hand side - it feels more comfortable to me. If I could see the real world benefits I might be able to force myself to relearn that.

Yes Form let's see that neutral thumb. Haha! The KRG Bravo, EH1, Clymer and Allterra stock are my favorites.


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[Ryan Avery]

Agreed, this is what I'm intending to address with my post. I want the best control possible of the rifle for field accuracy, recoil control to spot shots, and quicker follow ups as necessary.

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Anything above a 300 WSM for me.


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[zrodwyo]

I have a 12 pound 300 WSM in a chassis and a 8 pound 30 nosler in a stock. both suppressed. I feel more recoil from the 300 WSM.

 

[MTNHUNTER76]

MPA folder hybrid chassis. MPA and others make weight kits.

 

[Jimbee]

With true pistol grips it’s just reality. A vertical grip such as the KRG Bravo, Gunwerks Clymr, etc. allow you to do is to get the base of the thumb behind the grip, centerline to the bolt which aids in control- both or the gun and during recoil, while still give proper hand position. A true pistol grip does not- you either sacrifice control or bolt and safety manipulation speed/ease.


I’ll try to get some pics and maybe a video up to demo.

Interested in this. Hope to see an update sometime.

 

[TaperPin]

I’ve hunted with a 30-378 wby Mark 5 for exactly one season and here’s why. On paper it looked to be perfect for a 800 yard deer/elk rifle. If you’ve ever wanted one there is no substitute for the experience.

I‘ve spent a lot of range time and hunting with 7 mag, 338, 340 wby, three 375 H&H one of which was 7lbs with iron sights, so the recoil of the 30-378 in a 9 lb rifle wasn’t bad. Unless you have a magic thumb the recoil will be stiff with or without a brake, but most people can learn to shoot it accurately without and in that case your thumb better be holding on tight.

The first thing I noticed was at the range nobody wanted to be under a roof with me when the muzzle break was on. It’s a significant step up from a 300 win mag, or even 340 wby. Slow powders blow a 2’ flame out the muzzle and the report does make your tummy and wee wee feel funny. Still, that’s not a deal breaker for the best darn long range rifle known to man kind.

With the brake on you will either forget ear plugs or purposely shoot it hunting without ear protection (because nobody notices a gun going off hunting) exactly one time. I don’t know if the buck I shot or myself were more surprised - I can say from experience that you will 100% notice the sound of a big 30 cal.

Without the brake it must be better - I won’t even hear it - wrong again.

Having the ultimate long range rifle that can only be shot wearing ear plugs was the deal breaker - sold it and haven’t missed it once in 20 years. I have been looking at a 300 wby recently that would be much more user friendly and I could live with.

My advice is to track down someone who has one in the weight range you‘re thinking of and shoot a group - you’ll either want it even more or feel like you dodged an expensive bullet. It’s a rush to touch off that much powder. In a 15 lb gun with 28” barrel it would be a different experience than I had, other than the need for ear protection.

 

[BeastOfTheTrees]

I’ve hunted with a 30-378 wby Mark 5 for exactly one season and here’s why. On paper it looked to be perfect for a 800 yard deer/elk rifle. If you’ve ever wanted one there is no substitute for the experience.

I‘ve spent a lot of range time and hunting with 7 mag, 338, 340 wby, three 375 H&H one of which was 7lbs with iron sights, so the recoil of the 30-378 in a 9 lb rifle wasn’t bad. Unless you have a magic thumb the recoil will be stiff with or without a brake, but most people can learn to shoot it accurately without and in that case your thumb better be holding on tight.

The first thing I noticed was at the range nobody wanted to be under a roof with me when the muzzle break was on. It’s a significant step up from a 300 win mag, or even 340 wby. Slow powders blow a 2’ flame out the muzzle and the report does make your tummy and wee wee feel funny. Still, that’s not a deal breaker for the best darn long range rifle known to man kind.

With the brake on you will either forget ear plugs or purposely shoot it hunting without ear protection (because nobody notices a gun going off hunting) exactly one time. I don’t know if the buck I shot or myself were more surprised - I can say from experience that you will 100% notice the sound of a big 30 cal.

Without the brake it must be better - I won’t even hear it - wrong again.

Having the ultimate long range rifle that can only be shot wearing ear plugs was the deal breaker - sold it and haven’t missed it once in 20 years. I have been looking at a 300 wby recently that would be much more user friendly and I could live with.

My advice is to track down someone who has one in the weight range you‘re thinking of and shoot a group - you’ll either want it even more or feel like you dodged an expensive bullet. It’s a rush to touch off that much powder. In a 15 lb gun with 28” barrel it would be a different experience than I had, other than the need for ear protection.

I know a guy getting rid of a .300 Wby chassis rifle made for the exact thing you made that 30-338 for w/ 101x rounds. Just sayin lol

 

[TaperPin]

I know a guy getting rid of a .300 Wby chassis rifle made for the exact thing you made that 30-338 for w/ 101x rounds. Just sayin lol

I didn’t think I’d ever want another weatherby, but a local shop took a very nice wood stocked mark V in 300 and it’s dirt cheap - I’m kinda liking the glossy stock more than I thought I would. Lol

 

[JohnJohnson]

The answer to that probably depends on the stock geometry. Chassis systems (with the same thickness of recoil pad) should be the same sort of recoil impulse as a straight-line stock such as a Manners or McMillan for instance. They'll differ in impulse from stocks that don't have geometry that's as straight. More traditional stocks with more drop at the comb won't feel the same because the impulse is allowed to carry the barrel upwards more and not just in a straight line backwards.

What Form said about pistol grips is true during the shot process but once the trigger has been pulled they aren't having an effect on the recoil itself (and he's not claiming they are). So his point is unrelated to recoil entirely. It's more about how when you're using a pistol grip and your thumb is on the opposite side of the grip as your trigger finger, you'll induce some squeezing force on the grip as you pull the trigger which can effect the shot itself.

Logically speaking it makes sense. If you're trying to bring your index finger to any other object in your hand, your thumb and palm will try to bring it towards your finger because that's the efficient way for your hand to grip basically anything. Many people with pistol grips do the same thing without knowing it. But in a game where you're trying your best for a straight-line backwards press to not disturb the gun as you pull the trigger, having a sudden force pushing the left side of the grip can mess things up. Chassis systems like the KRG ones (and a couple others) where you can put your thumb on the same side of the grip as your trigger finger make it so this isn't an issue though.