Springfield 1903, a Lying Grandfather, Research experts Please

[BRTreedogs]

So here is the scoop. I'm interested in digging deep on this rifle.
My Grandfather hunted with it for years. But im not for sure it was his actual service rifle.
My Grandmother gave it to me the year prior to hunting age. I carried it for a few year and the safe queened it.
I pulled it out. Cleaned it all up and have vowed to take a big game animal with it.
Its rare, a Real 1903 Springfield modified for the Peterson device.
Has been sporterized.

Part of the problem is Grandfather lied to Grandmother about the war.
She said that he was an officers aid and never saw combat.
Only drove and poured drinks.

Well we dug up a chest and he was under Patton and has a CIB on his service dress. This could be fluff but you have to be 11B and exchange fire in combat to receive a CIB
To my knowledge he served 40-42

I asked my aging Uncle and he said when he was young he was around the corner of the barn ez dropping.
Grandfather was talking to a war friend about walking across Italy, then I believe France, clearing houses. And he was upset that his 6'6" Swedish battle buddy never got a scratch.

This also lines up with the research of Patton's units during that time.
For give me if I'm a little off on my research. Its been 6 months since I was digging.

But he should have been issued an M1 unless he was the designated marksman.

How do I dig more info out on this rifle?

Also where would be a good museum to donate this to when I die?
I have no children or other family i believe it would have heart felt value too.

 

[oldillini]

I can't offer anything, except that is sure a beauty!

 

[Wapiti151]

I don't have any expertise here...but following, because this is awesome. Beautiful rifle, and an even cooler story. Hope you get a critter with it!!!

 

[Wapiti1]

Unfortunately, as you know it's been chopped on. The front sight looks like a Pachmayr or Lyman and the rear is a Lyman or Redfield. The stock has been cut down as well. Adding that rear sight, also unfortunately, requires drilling and tapping the side of the bridge. It's a neat family heirloom and story. But not a lot of museum interest unless it's attached to something historical. They typically want Mil spec display weapons.

The original rifle would have been a 1903 Mk1 built in 1918-1919. None saw battle as far as I know. It was introduced after WWI ended, and they were surplus prior to WW2. All but a few of the Pederson devices were destroyed. The Garand, Thompson and other semi-auto designs negated the need for the device in WW2. So, it was a WW1 rifle. Those were brought up to M1903A1 spec and issued for WW2.

More info can be gleaned from the book The Model 1903 Springfield Rifle and its Variations by Joe Poyer.

Jeremy

 

[BRTreedogs]

Unfortunately, as you know it's been chopped on. The front sight looks like a Pachmayr or Lyman and the rear is a Lyman or Redfield. The stock has been cut down as well. Adding that rear sight, also unfortunately, requires drilling and tapping the side of the bridge. It's a neat family heirloom and story. But not a lot of museum interest unless it's attached to something historical. They typically want Mil spec display weapons.

The original rifle would have been a 1903 Mk1 built in 1918-1919. None saw battle as far as I know. It was introduced after WWI ended, and they were surplus prior to WW2. All but a few of the Pederson devices were destroyed. The Garand, Thompson and other semi-auto designs negated the need for the device in WW2. So, it was a WW1 rifle. Those were brought up to M1903A1 spec and issued for WW2.

More info can be gleaned from the book The Model 1903 Springfield Rifle and its Variations by Joe Poyer.

Jeremy

Interesting thanks.
Rear is a Redfield.
Front was a name I didn't recognize. I'll look again.

 

[Squincher]

So here is the scoop. I'm interested in digging deep on this rifle.
My Grandfather hunted with it for years. But im not for sure it was his actual service rifle.
My Grandmother gave it to me the year prior to hunting age. I carried it for a few year and the safe queened it.
I pulled it out. Cleaned it all up and have vowed to take a big game animal with it.
Its rare, a Real 1903 Springfield modified for the Peterson device.
Has been sporterized.

Part of the problem is Grandfather lied to Grandmother about the war.
She said that he was an officers aid and never saw combat.
Only drove and poured drinks.

Well we dug up a chest and he was under Patton and has a CIB on his service dress. This could be fluff but you have to be 11B and exchange fire in combat to receive a CIB
To my knowledge he served 40-42

I asked my aging Uncle and he said when he was young he was around the corner of the barn ez dropping.
Grandfather was talking to a war friend about walking across Italy, then I believe France, clearing houses. And he was upset that his 6'6" Swedish battle buddy never got a scratch.

This also lines up with the research of Patton's units during that time.
For give me if I'm a little off on my research. Its been 6 months since I was digging.

But he should have been issued an M1 unless he was the designated marksman.

How do I dig more info out on this rifle?

Also where would be a good museum to donate this to when I die?
I have no children or other family i believe it would have heart felt value too.

View attachment 367493

It might be possible to get a copy of his discharge form. There was a fire at the storage facility in St. Louis during the 1960's I believe, but not all of the records were destroyed. It would list campaigns, decorations, etc. It isn't likely he was discharged in '42 unless he was seriously wounded.

 

[BRTreedogs]

It might be possible to get a copy of his discharge form. There was a fire at the storage facility in St. Louis during the 1960's I believe, but not all of the records were destroyed. It would list campaigns, decorations, etc. It isn't likely he was discharged in '42 unless he was seriously wounded.

I believe my mom has his dd-214
I just talked to her she said late 1942-45 sounds like a more accurate dates.
Said Granny got pregnant when she went to see him in Ohio in 45 and he did not deploy again after that.
More pictures added to OP for anyone that knows about WW2 Army Rank, Patches, Campaigns

 

[hodgeman]

It is quite unlikely that was his actual issued rifle during wartime.

Still, the fact it is your grandfather's and it's an interesting piece of history is pretty darn good.

 

[amassi]

Tech sergeant in the glasses photo, buck sgt on the uni.
May have left the tech pool and been reclassed with a line or mech unit as a replacement or vice versa.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

 

[BRTreedogs]

Tech sergeant in the glasses photo, buck sgt on the uni.
May have left the tech pool and been reclassed with a line or mech unit as a replacement or vice versa.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

If I remember correctly that is the time frame Patton had mechanized.

Sounds like the rifle must if been a coincidental purchase. But the family confusion started because he brought it home when he was discharged.
He also brought home a 1911 that ended up getting stolen in 80s.

And my older brother has a documented German Luger he came home with.

 

[Scoony]

Found this interesting info:

Ruptured Duck Patch

More formally called the Honorable Service Lapel Patch, the "Ruptured Duck" was given to those members of the U.S. military who were honorably discharged during WWII. The insignia was worn on the right chest of the uniform and was meant to identify the soldiers who had done their duty.


The shoulder patch is the ADSEC (Advance Security)
ADSEC

 

[Squincher]

I believe my mom has his dd-214
I just talked to her she said late 1942-45 sounds like a more accurate dates.
Said Granny got pregnant when she went to see him in Ohio in 45 and he did not deploy again after that.
More pictures added to OP for anyone that knows about WW2 Army Rank, Patches, Campaigns

The top ribbon is for a Good Conduct Medal. The first two on the second row are campaign ribbons. Left to right, I think they are "Europe-Africa-Middle East Campaign, American Theatre Campaign, and the WWII Victory Ribbon.

 

[BRTreedogs]

Found this interesting info:

Ruptured Duck Patch

More formally called the Honorable Service Lapel Patch, the "Ruptured Duck" was given to those members of the U.S. military who were honorably discharged during WWII. The insignia was worn on the right chest of the uniform and was meant to identify the soldiers who had done their duty.


The shoulder patch is the ADSEC (Advance Security)
ADSEC

Amazing Adsec handed Railroad .
Grandpa spent 40 years at Union Pacific I believe was a Railroader when he was drafted and retired as a director signal communications

 

[Squincher]

Amazing Adsec handed Railroad .
Grandpa spent 40 years at Union Pacific I believe was a Railroader when he was drafted and retired as a director signal communications

If he had railroad experience, it is pretty likely he was snatched from the infantry for ADSEC leading up to the Normandy invasion or shortly thereafter. The logistics from then until the end of the war were absolutely mind boggling and they had a lot more people who could shoot a rifle than could run trains. So it is entirely possible he fought in Italy and France before landing the relatively "safe" assignment he told your grandmother about.

 

[BRTreedogs]

If he had railroad experience, it is pretty likely he was snatched from the infantry for ADSEC leading up to the Normandy invasion or shortly thereafter. The logistics from then until the end of the war were absolutely mind boggling and they had a lot more people who could shoot a rifle than could run trains. So it is entirely possible he fought in Italy and France before landing the relatively "safe" assignment he told your grandmother about.

Man I wish I had more first hand info from him.
I was only 8 when I died.
He never talked about any WW2 stuff at all really. Especially in front of women.
What I do know is he was a hard ass, very methodical and smart.

I really need to see if we can dig up that DD214.
Thanks for the info so far. Super neat

 

[Squincher]

Something I missed was the two stars on the Europe-Africa-Middle East Campaign ribbon, which indicates three awards of the ribbon for three different campaigns. If he served under Patton, that would have been North Africa in addition to Italy and France.

 

[BRTreedogs]

Something I missed was the two stars on the Europe-Africa-Middle East Campaign ribbon, which indicates three awards of the ribbon for three different campaigns. If he served under Patton, that would have been North Africa in addition to Italy and France.

I know he was proud to have served under Patton that was about all he would meantion.

 

[Lelder]

If you live near a local VFW (veterans of foreign wars) there can be a wealth of info from them and usually they have contacts to collectors who can give you detailed information and appraisals

 

[5MilesBack]

Ya, it's tough trying to validate or non-validate info from far back. I have my grandfather's Springfield 1903 from WWI, but I have no idea if it was his service rifle or just brought it back???? The barrel is stamped 2-18 IIRC so I would assume a Feb 1918 production date, but his looks totally different from yours. I'm pretty sure most if not all of what I have is original.

Good luck with the history search.

 

[sodaksooner]

All really cool stuff. I also have a 1903 Springfield that was my Grandfather's. It was a purchase though. He did not serve as he stayed home to run his farm and had kids by the time it started. My grandmothers brother and brother in law were both in the 5th Marine Division(and they didn't talk much about the war either). Uncle Bud just died about a year ago. All that said Grandpa had an affinity for service weapons and had sporterized several. I have the 1903. My dad has a 30-40 Krag (with a cool Mannilicher style stock) that also has a lot of history in the Western US after the war that is well documented, and a WW2 era 1911. I would be totally ok taking the Springfield hunting and the Krag made several hunting trips with my Dad (also a Marine, but pre-Vietnam) when I was a kid.

Have fun with your search.