Spotter weight??

[B_Reynolds_AK]

What Nick said. Your pack will be so much lighter on a guided hunt than on a solo backpack hunt, why wouldn’t you want to have your own glass?


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[wind gypsy]

My answer is it depends.. how in shape will you be? What is your experience level with backpack mountain hunts?

Some outfitters are more likely to walk you to your limits, in that case you might be wise to go without. My sheep hunt this past year was less strenuous than any elk hunt I’ve ever done. That said, my outfitter still has plenty of stories of people wanting to quit.

Being of the same mindset as Nick, I carried a Kowa 553 and light tripod combo that weighed about 3.5# total. I enjoyed being able to look at whatever I wanted and digiscope as my guide was looking through his scope. That said, I could have probably gotten sufficient time behind the guides scope to be satisfied. The guide did not have a digiscope setup so I’d be sure to bring your own.

 

[Sheepies Irae]

If I was paying $20K+ for a guided sheep hunt, there's not a chance I would go without my own spotter! Glassing is what you'll be doing the most and being a part of the entire process would be very important to me. Additionally, you likely won't be carrying a very heavy load, depending on the circumstances of the hunt you book and the weight of a nice spotter and tripod would not be overwhelming at all.

You don’t need a spotting scope to glass though. A pair of binoculars is all you need to distinguish white rocks from horned ungulates even several miles away.

This is part of a bigger issue honestly. Personally I feel that most sheep hunters(especially first timers) pack too much weight as is. I think this includes optics. We aren’t talking about taking a couple ounces here. We’re talking about a couple pounds. Never have I needed an 85mm spotting scope, or even a 65mm, on a sheep hunt. An experienced sheep hunter/guide can tell if a sheep is big with terrible glass from great distances. The one exception is if you’re planning on primarily hunting fringe full curls, and if you don’t have a guide to tell you what’s legal.

This all being said, I understand I am a bit of a contrarian here. I hunt with a monocular, 10 oz tripod, and a vortex 50mm spotter when I’m hunting sheep. The nice optics stay at home because it’s just not necessary. Luxury items are allowed when they weigh ounces, but not when they weigh 40.

The golden rule of sheep always applies: If it isn’t an essential, you’ll be happier without it.


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[MTElkChaser]

Have you thought of “renting” a Swarovski?

Swarovski ATS 80HD 20-60x
https://www.opencountryoptics.com/product/swarovski-ats-80hd-20-60x/

$30/day, 7 day minimum is $210 ...

Just a thought to save you a huge upfront purchase if you’re dead set on taking another spotter.

 

[Silvereagle50]

My answer is it depends.. how in shape will you be? What is your experience level with backpack mountain hunts?

Some outfitters are more likely to walk you to your limits, in that case you might be wise to go without. My sheep hunt this past year was less strenuous than any elk hunt I’ve ever done. That said, my outfitter still has plenty of stories of people wanting to quit.

Being of the same mindset as Nick, I carried a Kowa 553 and light tripod combo that weighed about 3.5# total. I enjoyed being able to look at whatever I wanted and digiscope as my guide was looking through his scope. That said, I could have probably gotten sufficient time behind the guides scope to be satisfied. The guide did not have a digiscope setup so I’d be sure to bring your own.

Wind gypsy has hit my thoughts on this to the point.
I want to look at what I want at times (plus two sets of eyes looking in different places....). And I hope to take lots of pics including with a digiscope.
I will try to get one as light as possible. I would love to get the kowa 553, but it’s pretty expensive.


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[Silvereagle50]

Have you thought of “renting” a Swarovski?

Swarovski ATS 80HD 20-60x
https://www.opencountryoptics.com/product/swarovski-ats-80hd-20-60x/

$30/day, 7 day minimum is $210 ...

Just a thought to save you a huge upfront purchase if you’re dead set on taking another spotter.

Yes I have thought of this. It’s a possibility. But I do plan to go on a couple other hunts where I’ll need one and could use it on the range, so I’d like to get one.


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[wind gypsy]

This all being said, I understand I am a bit of a contrarian here. I hunt with a monocular, 10 oz tripod, and a vortex 50mm spotter when I’m hunting sheep. The nice optics stay at home because it’s just not necessary. Luxury items are allowed when they weigh ounces, but not when they weigh 40.

The golden rule of sheep always applies: If it isn’t an essential, you’ll be happier without it.

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Say the outfitter dropped you on a ridgeline within 2000 yards of the sheep.. or you're used to grinding out solo bivy style elk hunts and have a guide/packer lightening up the load.. a couple pounds might not mean much.

Just why I say it depends. I think a lot of folks look at NR outfitted hunts the same as they do their DIY walk in hunts. They can be very similar, or wayyyy different depending on the guy. I also think a lot of people who book sheep hunts might have been on a bunch of elk / muley hunts so they think they are good to go for a dall hunt. Again - big difference there between a ranch hunt or packing into base camp on horses and a DIY steep and deep and packing animals on your back type hunts.

OP - what outfitter are you hunting with? Also, if $ is an issue i agree with renting (bet you could find someone on rokslide that would borrow a spotter for modest fee) or just buying used off classifieds and selling when you're done.

 

[Silvereagle50]

I’m looking at Alaskan Greatland Outfitters.

I have a buddy with all the best Swaro stuff. He had told me I could use any and all of his stuff. But now he is going with me. So that’s out.

 

[handwerk]

Once in a while you'll see a non HD swaro 65 for $1300 or less...worth saving for.

 

[Sheepies Irae]

Say the outfitter dropped you on a ridgeline within 2000 yards of the sheep.

I suppose that would justify a heavy setup. I still wouldn’t stand packing it uphill though; that’s just me.




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[duchntr]

If I was coming up for a once in a lifetime hunt you betcha Id be be packing all my own glass to get everything out of the experience. I wouldn't be concerned with the few additional lbs.

 

[Silvereagle50]

I appreciate all the suggestions and options to look at in my query for a spotter.

But (and I don't mind all the other talk as well) no one has really touched on my original question.

Whether it be a Vortex, Athlon, Kowa, Swaro it doesn't matter,...
Several of these offer 65mm and 80mm and there shows (according to their websites) to only be maybe 8-10 ounces difference between the two. Would it be worth the extra coin to bump up to the 80mm and have to carry that extra weight? Of course I would guess I may have to go to a heavier tripod in the process.
Basically asking is the $2-400 difference and better optics worth the 8-10oz.???

 

[longbarrel]

First, how much weight are you comfortable with? The very best optics will help a bit, for those 3-4 mile views. That means 8+ pounds with tripod, and the $3k plus for the scope, Swaro, Kowa, Leica 85 mm or so. If you drop down to 65 mm, same brands, well, the little Kowa 553-554 is almost the same optical quality and a lot lighter, and also cheaper. If you go with 85 mm in less than the finest optics (such as my Vortex 85 mm), then you are back to the same, or almost the same, as the 553-4 but a lot more weight and bulk to carry.

Unlike the basic costs of the hunt, money spent on optics will amortize over many hunts. It could also be mostly recovered by selling later if you change your mind/interests.

Hiking the mountains at 7000-9000 ft. elevation is considerably different from the flatlands of Oklahoma.

 

[longbarrel]

Also, I just don't see paying the time, effort and money for such a hunt without getting quality optics. I would be satisfied with the Kowa 553-4 or a Swaro or Leica 65 with the newest, best glass (but a sibstantial weight and bulk penalty over the Kowa). I would not be happy with lesser 65 mm optics such as Vortex razor. That is just my opinion and preference. If I miss seeing that single bedded animal, the trip could be wasted. Hopefully the guide will see it, but two sets of eyes are better.

 

[Sheepies Irae]

Also, I just don't see paying the time, effort and money for such a hunt without getting quality optics. I would be satisfied with the Kowa 553-4 or a Swaro or Leica 65 with the newest, best glass (but a sibstantial weight and bulk penalty over the Kowa). I would not be happy with lesser 65 mm optics such as Vortex razor. That is just my opinion and preference. If I miss seeing that single bedded animal, the trip could be wasted. Hopefully the guide will see it, but two sets of eyes are better.

I would normally agree, but you just aren't going to miss a white ram in green grass. Sure it takes some time scanning every white rock for a few seconds, but they are always easy to pick out even without optics. When sheep hunting your spotting scope is for determining trophy quality at a range. Your binos are what you use to glass 90% of the time.

I know a guide who has taken plenty of big rams includng at least a few 40+ inchers. To my knowledge he has used a 100$ bushnell spotting scope and a table top tripod to judge rams for nearly 20 years. He breaks out the zeiss glass on other hunts, but when sheep hunting it just isn't worth packing. 8x binos are plenty when it comes to glassing for sheep, and lightweight spotting scopes are the ticket.

Would it be worth the extra coin to bump up to the 80mm and have to carry that extra weight? Of course I would guess I may have to go to a heavier tripod in the process.
Basically asking is the $2-400 difference and better optics worth the 8-10oz.???

Sheep are just a different animal. It is very nice to have a 80mm scope any time, but it is a big luxury to carry around. I absoulety would go with a 65mm or less, and I would elect to save up for a Kowa 554/553. At the sub 1000$ price point you are really missing out on a massive jump on spotting scope quality. You really only get close to the jump if you spend at least 1300$ on a better used scope. The same cannot be said for binoculars, where 1000$ can get you some amazing binos, and the next step up is a little less of a jump.

As far as I know, for the sub 1000$ price point you are either getting a Vortex Razor or a Kowa 600. Maybe someone else can chime in but I am pretty sure that's what you're looking at. I'd try out the Kowas.

 

[longbarrel]

I agree, it should not be hard to find a white ram in green grass. A brown ram in the desert is a different situation. I got convinced to buy Leica binos in 1993 looking for a white mtn. goat next to white rocks in white snow.

 

[adventure907]

As reference, I guide with a 80mm Swaro STM, but I am looking to downsize to a 65 Swaro for weight and bulk savings.

Sheep aren't as easy to spot as some would make it believe, especially from a distance. When that sun gets shining high in the sky, every rock looks like a sheep, and every sheep looks like a rock.

Spotters are definitely more important than bino's.

And, as always, ounces count.

 

[longbarrel]

Those who have compared the 65 Swaro to the Kowa 553-4 report that they are almost identical in optical quality, resolution. The Kowa has smaller field of view, focus knobs are touchy, the mount for the 553 does not rotate. However, the Kowa is much lighter and needs less tripod.

 

[Bambistew]

I wish there were endless green pastures and white sheep standing in them where I go. I'd just use my rifle scope and leave all optics behind. hahaha. I've spotted many rams bedded mid day at 2+ miles that you couldn't see with binos (swaros). The only part you could see was their head sticking out above the rocks. It's actually quite impressive how well they can hide being white. As @adventure907 eluded, the rocks can be shiny, the haze can suck, and the rams can be bedded in places all you can see is their horn sticking above the ridge. While they do come out to feed in the nice open green, it's really nice to see them before they do. While I don't think that sheep are super hard to spot most of the time, having inferior optics is not something I would recommend.

I can't really say if I'd take a spotter or not on a guided hunt if I was in your shoes. I've been on a couple dozen sheep hunts and the freshness has worn off a bit for me. However when my pardner spots a ram in the spotter, I'm still excited to have my turn, although I will wait patiently as there is almost always plenty of time to look.

It's your once in a lifetime hunt, make it all you want! I'm not sure that two spotters are necessary through. Personally I think I would spend the same amount of money on a nice camera instead, and you'll have memories to last a lifetime, vs a few seconds of time peering through a spotter.

Good luck on your hunt!

 

[longbarrel]

Another part of your optics recipe is the binoculars. Best quality there is also very important. I discussed some options with Doug today to replace my Leupold BX4's which he rightly characterized as "good" not great. Meopta Meostar (not meopro) are up there but heavier. It came down to Leica ultravid or Swarovski SLC for my older eyes, with 10x42 being not much heavier than 10x32, and running about 1.5 pounds. My old 1993 Leica 10x42s weighed 2 pounds. I chose the Leica ultravids this time. If you can only get either a spotter or "alpha" glass binos, think about it. Since you will have a guide, in such a case I would get the best binos and use his spotter once game is located.