Spine too stiff?

[Tupp]

Currently running a 33 Mathews lift, 28.5 inch draw length, 80lb mods.

I’ve been playing around with some of the spine calculators out there and I’m getting either a 300 or 235 spine arrow is ideal.

Now the arrow set up is a VAP TKO, 100 grain SEVR broadhead, and a 50 grain podium archery titanium outsert. Total arrow weight is 474 and arrow length has been cut to 27. I’m trying to figure out if I should move up to the 235 spine arrow or not.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

qSpine/OT2Go says 150 gr on the front + 30 gr on the rear of a 27" 300 spine shaft would be slightly weak of "optimal." I think you would be fine with a 300, but a little stiffer wouldn't hurt either.

Bow inputs: 348 fps IBO, 80# DW, 28.5" DL, 29.5" ATA, 6" BH, 85% LO

 

[Tupp]

Forgot to mention, running the blazer 2 inch vanes at 6 grains a piece, and an Easton microlite nock, putting me at 24 grains in the rear.

I’ll see if I can find a link to that and play with some numbers

 

[Beendare]

I shot overspined arrows for decades ( in a modern compound) in multiple bows and many experienced buddies do the same.

Tunes fine, avoids problems with BH tuning and makes for a more durable hunt arrow.

 

[Tupp]

Sweet! So you’re saying 235’s with my set up should be just fine?
I got a killer deal on some and don’t wanna pass them up if I can use them

 

[Bump79]

Sweet! So you’re saying 235’s with my set up should be just fine?
I got a killer deal on some and don’t wanna pass them up if I can use them

You'll be fine at 300 spine cut short. Plenty of 250 spine options as well - the VAP has a 250 spine if you get a Victory deal. Consider also that the 250 VAP TKO is much heavier than the 300 VAP TKO. While the 250 VAP is similar in GPI to the 300 TKO.

Most of the spine calculators like Archers Advantage will indicate a spine stiff. But once you calibrate it with your chrono speed and not IBO it shifts one weaker in my experience since nothing hits IBO.

This is from Perry with AA:

I've been shooting the Element Storm 300 & 250 shafts for 5 years now that are light and durable. They have a 40% off sale right now - $155 TYD. Food for thought. You can sell the Ethics that come with it and use your same MFJJ components.

Storm Arrows 12 Pk. - Bare Shafts (.001 straightness)

Flying Arrow Archery was founded in 2012 by Chris Rager in the incredible state of Montana. See our wide selection of archery broadheads, shafts, arrows, nocks, and more.

buyflyingarrow.com

 

[BKM]

I’ve never worried about being overspined only under.

I’ve been tuning with big fixed blades with only that in mind for 20+ years and it has never failed

 

[Tupp]

Thank you for the reassurance. I didn’t wanna get the 235’s and then they be useless

 

[Bump79]

I’ve never worried about being overspined only under.

I’ve been tuning with big fixed blades with only that in mind for 20+ years and it has never failed

My experience is that while a stiffer spine will fly fine - too stiff will be less forgiving. You'll still get it to fly but it's more finicky. I like to be on the stiff side of optimum but he doesn't have that much point weight at 150 to break that 235 spine down.

@Tupp 250 Why not just get the VAP 250's instead of the 235 TKO? You'll still be well on the stiff side of things. Plus those 235 VAP TKO is much heavier than the 300. Not sure what arrow weight you're targeting but with the VAP 250 you'll have less weight, stiff be plenty durable and better FOC (just get above 12 in my book).

 

[Tupp]

They’re just what my buddy had and sold em real cheap. Putting all the specs and it has me at 474g and FOC at 14.29% so I figured I’d be good there.

Worst case scenario, they were $100. And can buy new ones, but figured I’d give them a shot and see if I could make them work

I just don’t want to throw my inserts in and get them all ready to go if they’re not going to fly well, I’d rather stop while I’m ahead and buy new ones and get those built instead.

Also, these arrows I’m looking to use for white tail, mule deer, hogs, and elk being the biggest game.

 

[TheBootBowhunting]

Currently running a Mathews lift, 28.5 inch draw length, 80lb mods.

I’ve been playing around with some of the spine calculators out there and I’m getting either a 300 or 235 spine arrow is ideal.

Now the arrow set up is a VAP TKO, 100 grain SEVR broadhead, and a 50 grain podium archery titanium outsert. Total arrow weight is 474 and arrow length has been cut to 27. I’m trying to figure out if I should move up to the 235 spine arrow or not.

I think you can make either work. Id go with 300 cut short - 1 thing to keep in mind with the calculators is they assume your bow actually makes IBO. The Lift 29.5 isnt hitting 348 and is probably closer to 335, add a few FPS if you are shooting 80%LO. Thatll make both spines even stiffer in reality.

 

[Tupp]

Ok, I’ll probably order some 300’s today then and maybe just use these for practice

 

[Zac]

The only people I’ve heard mention weaker being more forgiving is Dudley, and Levi. When Duds was doing all his ladder testing Hoyt had some of the worst nock travel available. Levi has only made the reference when referring to 3D. I think it takes that level of archer to notice. Even then people like Tim will say that there is no such thing as too stiff. I certainly have never seen it. Even with extreme circumstances.

 

[Tupp]

I don’t mind the weight, I just wanted to make sure I was even able to use the 235 spine and the arrows shoot fine.

Sadly 30.5 would be too long, I generally cut my arrows a half inch in front of the riser, which is why I was saying they’d be 27 inch shafts. I assembled one and I’ll give it a shot and see how it performs

 

[rclouse79]

If I had to choose, I would err on the side of too stiff. I tried to shoot the under spined arrows the bow shop set me up with and spent far too long banging my head on the wall when my broadheads were spraying everywhere no matter what I did to my rest or knocking point. Went to a stiffer spine and everything was magically fixed.

 

[Billy Goat]

In a centershot compound, you can't get too stiff.

 

[Tupp]

Ok glad to hear that! I’ll finish installing all components and give these a shot

 

[BKM]

Probably 10 years ago I set some arrows up for a 150gr 3 blade VPA. Ontarget showed them as on the stiff side.

I threw a 100gr field point on and shot some bare shafts, very little change. Shot a 100gr grizztrick at 20 yards and it hit just a bit low

That was the start of not worrying about the trends in bows/arrows/tuning. I’m now all the way back to shooting XX75 cammo hunters after a lot of years and many $200 dollar a doz. hight FOC arrows with to much time invested in what they may do better.

 

[Jon_G]

Would you mind sharing how exactly you got to 474 Grains? I run 350 spine arrows but even if I shot 300s my math still wouldn't add up to 474. I want to shoot at least a 125 grain BH so I'm gathering information as well to see if I can stick with my 350s or if I'll need 300s. Thanks in advance for your help

 

[Tupp]

Would you mind sharing how exactly you got to 474 Grains? I run 350 spine arrows but even if I shot 300s my math still wouldn't add up to 474. I want to shoot at least a 125 grain BH so I'm gathering information as well to see if I can stick with my 350s or if I'll need 300s. Thanks in advance for your help

on Victory’s website it shows the 235 spine to be 11.1 GPI. I’ll attach it below, I used that and the FOC calculator on podium archery

11.1 GPI x 27 (arrow length) = 299.7
+ 100 (broadhead)
+50 (insert)
+18 (3 vanes)
+6 (Nock)

Total weight is 473.7