So schnees suck bad, how bout Kennetrec's level of suckiness

[squirrel]

I see they are on here as an advertiser so this may be verboten.

Bought schnees tall pac boots and it was just an unbelievable disaster 2" deep "one step" creeks left water actually sloshing in them, not easy to do with a felt liner. Crocs with the holes in them would have been equally waterproof and one hell of a lot easier to drain/change.

Sent them in to be fixed came back smeared with shoo go 2" wide across the welt. Put them in 6" of water and went to get a jug of buckshot to weigh them down by the time I got back with the buckshot they were 5-1/2 " deep with water in both boots. NEVER AGAIN...



two days ago bought tall pacs from Murdochs by Kennetrec and specifically asked about the waterproof guarantee and told him of my test i was going to give upon arrival home, he assured me they would pass or they would give me a refund. (but it is a 50 mile drive)

Upon the application of the buckshot I poured out 1 cup of water after 3-4 minutes, both boots 20 times better than the schnees but in my opinion not good enough for $400 boots. A call to Kennetrec offered the "smear them with aqua seal " advice.

What to do? Is it unrealistic to expect to get waterproof pack style boots for a measly $400?

 

[sab]

What to do? Is it unrealistic to expect to get waterproof pack style boots for a measly $400?

In my humble opinion, yes, this is an unrealistic expectation. Pac boots are leather, which is porous. They can be very water-resistant, but not waterproof. I would never expect to stand in water up into the leather uppers without getting wet feet. Walking through rather quickly, yes, but standing immersed, no.

 

[Yellowknife]

Yah that’s basically it. They are designed for snow, not water. There nothing you can do to make a pac boot fully waterproof. Switching brands won’t change that that basic fact.

 

[fightthenoise]

I’ve had a pair of hunter II’s for three years and while I’ve never tried to use them as fishing waders like you did, I’ve never had wet feet in them, stream crossings included.

 

[LJ Buck]

One of the most common issues with product complaints is consumers misunderstanding a product and its capabilities. If you want 100% h2o proof boots get Mucks, of Lacrosse. All leather hiking or mountaineering boots that claim to be waterproof have a liner like gortex making them waterproof, they don't depend on the leather.....

 

[BIGEYES]

I really like my Schnee Hunter IIs. First thing that I did was apply seam sealer to all seams/ stitching. Hunting (wearing gaiters) in deep snow in MT a few years ago produced only perspiration in the boots. Thank heaven for boot driers! Extra pair of liners also helps. I had to cross a stream (very quickly) this year to retrieve a deer. On the return trip, I felt dampness in one boot; but I could not actually see any water when I removed them.
No, they are not waterproof but sure are great for cold weather hunting in snow. Yeah, I'm a fan.

 

[Kevin Dill]

If you want truly waterproof boots, your choices really come down to rubber boots or something backed by Gore Tex. i have a pair of Zamberlan 1012 Vioz GTX boots which are far more waterproof than the multiple pairs of Schnee's Pacs I once owned. I wore the Zams on a caribou hunt in extremely wet conditions and my feet remained dry and happy the entire hunt. The only advantage I can see to a Schnee's or Kennetrek pac (or other rubber bottom-leather top pac) is warmth due to the liner. I can match that with a 1000 Gm insulated Lacrosse boot. The pac boot is reputed to have more ankle support (than rubber) but from experience it falls far short of a premium lace-up leather boot.

Although nice to wear in drier conditions, I ditched my Schnee's pacs years ago. I simply got tired of wet wrinkled leather, very damp interiors, changing liners every day on longer hunts, and frozen feet on cold mornings. I need less hassle and more reliability. The easiest system I've found is a pair of Lacrosse boots with at least 800-1000 grams of insulation, combined with a SmartWool liner sock and quality thick merino wool tall hunting sock. If I stop midday I typically change my outer socks and that's it. Any moisture generated from my feet gets wicked into the socks and my boots don't get clammy or cold. And for the record, I can hike just as far and just as comfortably in good-fitting rubber boots as any pac boot I've owned.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Preach KD - I don’t spend as much time in the snow as I once did but my old pair of pack boots hasn’t been out in a long time. I am all for nostalgia but the world has moved on since the LL Bean glory days and there are just better ways to keep your feet dry than slathering leather with grease. Like KD I just found they work less well than a heavily insulated goretex boot or a pair of mucks / lacrosse rubber boots when it is going to be rainy.

My go tos for winter snow are a pair of lacrosse boots or 1000 gram insulated danners.

I am sure there are plenty of people that still use and love pack boots but it just seems like there are better, newer options these days. Heck sorrel and a few others make pac boots with textiles and hydro seal liners if you really want the design.

 

[cuttiebrownbow]

I owned one pair of pac boots years ago. I will take a pair of Lacrosse Alpha Burly Pros any day of the week over top of any pac boot.

Lacrosse fit my feet very well but Muck boots have a bit of a sloppy fit for me and aren't as stiff. So perhaps try both brands and see what you like.

 

[LostArra]

If you want truly waterproof boots, your choices really come down to rubber boots or something backed by Gore Tex. i have a pair of Zamberlan 1012 Vioz GTX boots which are far more waterproof than the multiple pairs of Schnee's Pacs I once owned. I wore the Zams on a caribou hunt in extremely wet conditions and my feet remained dry and happy the entire hunt. The only advantage I can see to a Schnee's or Kennetrek pac (or other rubber bottom-leather top pac) is warmth due to the liner. I can match that with a 1000 Gm insulated Lacrosse boot. The pac boot is reputed to have more ankle support (than rubber) but from experience it falls far short of a premium lace-up leather boot.

Although nice to wear in drier conditions, I ditched my Schnee's pacs years ago. I simply got tired of wet wrinkled leather, very damp interiors, changing liners every day on longer hunts, and frozen feet on cold mornings. I need less hassle and more reliability. The easiest system I've found is a pair of Lacrosse boots with at least 800-1000 grams of insulation, combined with a SmartWool liner sock and quality thick merino wool tall hunting sock. If I stop midday I typically change my outer socks and that's it. Any moisture generated from my feet gets wicked into the socks and my boots don't get clammy or cold. And for the record, I can hike just as far and just as comfortably in good-fitting rubber boots as any pac boot I've owned.

Kevin: didn't you have a hunting boot (Cabelas maybe) with some futuristic lacing system that you found to be good? Seems that you used them on a moose hunt. I don't remember if they were waterproof. Maybe I'm misremembering

 

[Kevin Dill]

Kevin: didn't you have a hunting boot (Cabelas maybe) with some futuristic lacing system that you found to be good? Seems that you used them on a moose hunt. I don't remember if they were waterproof. Maybe I'm misremembering

Yes...those were the Cabela's Instinct Lockdown Boots. They incorporate a gaiter and the boot is waterproof to the knee. The main walking boot used a BOA lacing system which was great. Unfortunately, those boots were discontinued after about 3 or 4 years. I still have a pair in superb (1 hunt) condition, but will likely sell them as I don't need them. The design of those is very ingenious....I think we'll see that concept again in the future, but not from Cabela's of course.

 

[Kevin Dill]

For those who have $600 to burn and don't mind looking like they jumped out of a Marvel comic book.....

My gut on these: Will be noisy in brush unless pants worn over them. 200G insulation isn't much when temps plummet. Superb comfort and support. Can be used to signal high-altitude aircraft in an emergency.

 

[squirrel]

Thanks for the input guys and i have decided to return them, (50 mile drive be damned) if I chose the factory option of sealing them obviously I can't take them back if they still suck.

These would do for a quick stream crossing, unlike the schnees which got soaking wet walking in powder dry snow.

Im leaning towards the MUCK boot thing for comfort, never had the warmer version of them but they are still 1/4 the $ of these sieve-like pac boots.

Ive got lots of pack stock so having options in footwear is no big deal, leather boots and Muck pull-ons may be the go to combo. Complimented by gaiters.

 

[LostArra]

Thanks for the input guys and i have decided to return them, (50 mile drive be damned) if I chose the factory option of sealing them obviously I can't take them back if they still suck.

These would do for a quick stream crossing, unlike the schnees which got soaking wet walking in powder dry snow.

Im leaning towards the MUCK boot thing for comfort, never had the warmer version of them but they are still 1/4 the $ of these sieve-like pac boots.

Ive got lots of pack stock so having options in footwear is no big deal, leather boots and Muck pull-ons may be the go to combo. Complimented by gaiters.

If you deal with briars, cactus or barbed wire fences I found that putting some old gaiters around the tops of Mucks prolongs the life of the neoprene uppers.

 

[zacattack]

If you deal with briars, cactus or barbed wire fences I found that putting some old gaiters around the tops of Mucks prolongs the life of the neoprene uppers.

I learned this the hard way one year rabbit hunting. Those upper shred like paper in a briar patch.

 

[boom]

last season, elk hunting i was constantly in water. my Schnee Beartooth kept my feet dry the entire time. my hike up the mountain in the mornings was an old goat trail that had turned into a small stream.
the leather leaks i'm sure. i think it is the goretex bootie within the leather that keeps the water out.

i do however, do not think they are the most comfy boot..but i have crap feet. all heavy boots feel like the iron-maiden on my feet.

 

[squirrel]

last season, elk hunting i was constantly in water. my Schnee Beartooth kept my feet dry the entire time. my hike up the mountain in the mornings was an old goat trail that had turned into a small stream.
the leather leaks i'm sure. i think it is the goretex bootie within the leather that keeps the water out.

i do however, do not think they are the most comfy boot..but i have crap feet. all heavy boots feel like the iron-maiden on my feet.

footwear is such an individual thing blanket statements are almost always wrong.

My experience was the opposite I found them one of the most comfortable boots i have ever worn for hard cold weather elk hunting. It was just the pits as my day starts with a small creek crossing, it starts off the day terrible to be sloshing and it isnt even daylight yet, by time of the evening sit you could wring water out of the felts. It really tests your mental toughness to sit there in single digits with soggy boots.

For the record sorel made waterproof pacs 30 years ago, it is just hard to imagine with today's technology that some china-man cannot replicate this miracle those Canadians figured out in the 70's.

My only experience with Mucks were as a barn boot in calving season, they were superb for that.

 

[boom]

footwear is such an individual thing blanket statements are almost always wrong.

My experience was the opposite I found them one of the most comfortable boots i have ever worn for hard cold weather elk hunting. It was just the pits as my day starts with a small creek crossing, it starts off the day terrible to be sloshing and it isnt even daylight yet, by time of the evening sit you could wring water out of the felts. It really tests your mental toughness to sit there in single digits with soggy boots.

For the record sorel made waterproof pacs 30 years ago, it is just hard to imagine with today's technology that some china-man cannot replicate this miracle those Canadians figured out in the 70's.

My only experience with Mucks were as a barn boot in calving season, they were superb for that.

absolutely true. my feet are the worse.

this past elk season. snow, dry and wet. my feet stayed dry as well. but in all honestly, my brother was with me, also with dry feet. he wears Kenetreiks.

my first season with my boots. i waited for an elk to show himself. i was standing in a wetlands. ankle deep, trying to stay quiet, and not pee on myself. water was COLD! but my feet stayed dry. i stood there seemingly forever.

i suppose i am lucky. my boots are tight.

 

[KurtR]

Wear my kenetrek pacs ice fishing and feet are always dry.

 

[Buck Naked]

Pack boots have huge holes for sewing the leather upper to the rubber lower. The best sealant for these holes is Super Glue. It needs something liquid enough to penetrate and then not break down with flexing, the glue does it fine. Run the glue around the entire edge where the leather meets the rubber, gravity works to get it in there.
Then its just a matter of making the leather water resistant