So, I got new limbs and I'm building arrows...

[weedwacker42]

I switched out my Hoyt Carbon Spyder ZT LD 60-70# limbs for 70-80# limbs. I have a 32" draw. The bow is pegged out and sits at 78.5# draw weight (which is a little annoying for 80# limbs). I put my old CE Maxima Hunter 450s weighing in at 453g with 100g field tips and chrono'd at 320fps and FOC of 8.82. My goal is to be able to go heavier and bring the speed down with better FOC. I shoot a 32" arrow because of a nasty habit of splaying my spider-like index finger off my grip and i ran a field tip or two down my finger when I was shooting 31" arrows... No injuries andI know I need to break that habit, but didn't want to risk doing the same with a broadhead!

My interest had been piqued on the Black Eagle arrows, so I contacted them and they recommended their Spartan arrow in a 250 spine and I ordered a dozen. Arrow is 10g/inch. Insert is stainless steel at 26g, nock 9g, nock bushing is SS at 10g. Planning on putting AAE Stealth Max vanes (3 fletch) at 7.5g per. I ordered their screw in brass insert weights in both the 30 and 75 to play around a bit, but probably use the 30s. They are even stackable if so inclined. I also plan to go up to a 125g broadhead. Overall setup weight using the GT calculator page with 30g insert is 542.5g with 12.72% FOC. That jumps to 587.5 with 15.28% FOC with 75g insert weight.

No, I'm not hunting rhinos! Lol. I just figure god blessed/cursed me with a long wing span and decent strength so why not use it?

I guess I'm really wondering is this too heavy/unnecessary? Does the arrow build sound reasonable? And how much speed do you think I lose going that heavy? I'd like to stay over 285fps. Just interested to hear if my thinking is sound and reasonable or if anyone had any other thoughts.

Thanks!

 

[jmez]

Sounds reasonable. That really isn't all that heavy of an arrow for your specs. Only way to know the speed is to shoot it through a chronograph and check.

 

[dreamingbig]

Agree. Sounds reasonable. I run 560 grain arrows out of my Hoyt faktor turbo with 80lb limbs. 27.25" arrow and 27.5" DL.

 

[OR Archer]

First thing I would suggest is to put that bow in a press and add 3 twists to each cable. Recheck the peak poundage. If its at 80# or slightly above then I'd start by resetting the timing. No reason to not get 80# out of a set of 80# limbs, especially on a Hoyt.

Now having tuned a couple of those bows I know at 80# the "sweet spot" on that bow is very very small. The weight of the arrow itself isn't an issue at all. I would worry that by putting that much weight up front at 32" you're going to be putting yourself on the spine border of being slightly weak. Not to say it won't tune, just that it's going to make the small sweet spot even smaller.

 

[weedwacker42]

Thanks for the thoughts so far guys. I'm open to any and all other suggestions.

OR Archer- Will taking an inch off my arrow length to "increase" spine make that much of a difference in this case or will it still be the same issues on finding the "sweet spot"? My major concern with shooting this heavy is finding the proper shaft that can be long enough. I looked at some of the other arrows and it seems a lot of the stiffer arrows don't come in 32" uncut shafts. I think GT kinetic 200s only came in 30 inch length and I'd like to try and avoid outserts if I can. We shot some FMJs at the shop and they were no bueno. Could do something like Dangerous Games, but that seems to be REAL overkill for my whitetail, turkey, and even elk hunting. I don't have a bow press or claim to be any good a tuning a bow so I rely pretty heavily on my local bow shop. Should I ask them to add the twists or would I just be splitting hairs? If 78.5# makes it a little easier for my simple arrow tuning mind to get a proper arrow setup I don't mind sacrificing a little speed.

 

[5MilesBack]

I think GT kinetic 200s only came in 30 inch length and I'd like to try and avoid outserts if I can. Could do something like Dangerous Games, but that seems to be REAL overkill for my whitetail, turkey, and even elk hunting.

At 32" draw, and 32" arrows, and 80lbs draw, .250 spine probably isn't going to cut it. Ya, you can shoot them, but they may not tune as well as the .200 spine Kinetic.

I have the Rampage 250's and the Kinetic 200's and shoot them at 30" with a 32 1/2" draw at 71lbs. When I got my PSE Freak, it liked the 200's better. And I just use regular HIT's and 125's. FOC is down near 9-10% or something like that on the Kinetic 200's. I don't really care what it is, as they shoot really well.....even long range. They come in at 532gr at 290fps.

It would be even harder to achieve good FOC with the Dangerous Game shafts as they are very heavy to start with.

I too would get the bow at 80lbs or better before I started tweaking and tuning.

 

[weedwacker42]

I reached out to GT and they suggested the Kinetic Pierce or Hunter XT, both in .250. Don't know much about either of those... Should be interesting. Since I already ordered, I'll probably just build up some of the Spartans. Which reminds me, anyone recommend a tool for the screw in point weights so I can reach from the nock end? I saw a couple options on Lancaster's site, but no clue if they are fairly standard or if component/head size specific.

 

[OR Archer]

Gold Tip makes a long wrench for screwing those insert weights in.

Now as far as the poundage goes, that should of been checked at the shop when they installed them. I would take it back and ask them kindly to rectify the issue. Like I said it should only take 3 twists in each cable to bring it up to peak poundage. Timing will need to be reset however.

Now when I was referring to the "sweet spot" I was talking about the tuning of the bow. The longer limbs on that bow can induce a lot of lateral nock travel, so you may find you are having to yoke tune it a bit more than usual at those specs.

 

[weedwacker42]

Gold Tip makes a long wrench for screwing those insert weights in.

Now as far as the poundage goes, that should of been checked at the shop when they installed them. I would take it back and ask them kindly to rectify the issue. Like I said it should only take 3 twists in each cable to bring it up to peak poundage. Timing will need to be reset however.

Now when I was referring to the "sweet spot" I was talking about the tuning of the bow. The longer limbs on that bow can induce a lot of lateral nock travel, so you may find you are having to yoke tune it a bit more than usual at those specs.

Yeah, that's where my ineptitude arises. I don't know squat about yoke tuning. I suppose I'll have to have the bow shop boys help me with that too. Or just take a flight to Oregon and hang with you for the weekend! What you said about the nock travel is interesting. I shot some of my old arrows today just to get used to the poundage increase (only 20 yards). Elevation at that distance even with my old site unadjusted was still pretty good, but was hitting 2" left consistently. PS-I'm left handed. I hope these bow shop guys are worth a darn. I'm a little worried since they seemed to be pretty non-chalant in just accepting that the bow pegged out was 78.5#.

 

[5MilesBack]

Which reminds me, anyone recommend a tool for the screw in point weights so I can reach from the nock end?

Since you haven't built the arrows yet, why don't you just screw them on before you install them?

I'm LH too. Let me know if you need any LH arrows.

 

[weedwacker42]

Since you haven't built the arrows yet, why don't you just screw them on before you install them?

I'm LH too. Let me know if you need any LH arrows.

Lol! I've often wondered why they don't stock any left handed arrows! I can't even find a left handed release! It's pure discrimination I tell ya!

The reason I don't want to screw them in before installing the inserts is mainly so I can play around with the modularity of the weights, stacking etc. without having to remove and reinstall the inserts themselves. I never have good luck cleanly removing them after they're glued in.

 

[jmez]

Where are you in KS?

 

[weedwacker42]

Where are you in KS?

I'm down south in Wichita.

 

[5MilesBack]

You could still play around with the weights and inserts before gluing them in to figure out different FOC's and arrow weights, etc. And then pick one and build them.

 

[weedwacker42]

Just got home from the bow shop. We got the bow up to 80#, timing is good. Perfect paper tear with my old arrows. Interesting I had one guy say Hoyt's tolerances on limbs is +4# to -2#. Another guy said their tolerance was +5# to -1#. Interesting to hear anyway.
My new arrows arrived yesterday and we played with arrow length. Going to drop to 31". Have a weight insertion rod on the way. I'll spend some time this weekend fletching and installing the inserts. Then plan on making 3 arrows with just the 125g field tip, 3 with 125g + 30g weight, 3 with 125 + 75g weight, and then just for giggles 3 with 125g and the weights stacked. Should be fun!

Thanks for all the help you guys.

 

[weedwacker42]

Sorry, I hate bumping my own thread.

Apparently these jokers at Black Eagle created a screw in point weight system that they don't have a tool for. It seems to be a 3/32 Allen/Hex in the brass weight. I got an X-Tool and its way too big. I don't have access to the GT tool and I can't seem to find a description of the size of the head they have, but I am guessing it's the same size as the X. Again, the idea is that I can install/glue in the inserts and then add/remove weights by accessing them via the nock end. I don't have squat for access to machining tools, welders, or the like. I don't even have a small enough grinder to try and down-size the X-tool. Anyone know of any 32+" long 3/32 Allen wrenches or have any DIY ideas?

You could still play around with the weights and inserts before gluing them in to figure out different FOC's and arrow weights, etc. And then pick one and build them.

Yeah, I thought about this too, but I still want to see how the different weights fly/group. Maybe I could half-a$$ glue them so its easy to knock out the inserts, but clean up can be a pain. I know its all probably overkill and folks in other threads have said it doesn't really matter, but it's kind of fun for me to tinker and play with numbers. Especially in the long offseason....although it was 75 degrees last week.

 

[MattB]

Frankly, with that wing span there is no reason to shoot more than 70#. The extra energy is great, but the issues with spine and tuning may not be worth it.

 

[5MilesBack]

Frankly, with that wing span there is no reason to shoot more than 70#. The extra energy is great, but the issues with spine and tuning may not be worth it.

I don't think he will have any problem getting a good tune, the roadblocks seem to be coming from tinkering with components. I actually considered getting an 80lb'er recently and I'm 50, but it really isn't needed. But I'd probably order a 65-75lb bow if I was ordering today and it was available in that limb weight.

 

[elkbowkevin]

If you need a cheap tool for putting insert weights in, just cut 1" off a correct sized allen wrench, JB weld, Braze or weld it to the tip of a straightened coat hanger with a cylinder, If using JB weld, let it cure good and hard then sand it to fit in the shaft. Saw this tip on another site. Disclosure: I have not used it yet.

Also you can get really cheap insert weights (allen head set screws) at the hardware store, Just take your grain scale in and weigh them. The ones I used are 10 grains and 3/8" the 1/2" are 18 grains if I remember rightly.